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aspieMD
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11 Apr 2014, 2:31 am

So there's this one look, which happens when I do something or say something that turned out maybe not to be the perfect thing an NT would have naturally said, that is enough to make me want to run into the bathroom and cry.

Two NTs look at each other. The corners of their mouths go up or down, and their eyebrows often raise. Sometimes they laugh nervously.

Has anyone else noticed this? Any NTs want to explain why they get so uncomfortable so easily and feel the need to diffuse the tension that way? Because when they do that it really does hurt me and make ME feel super uncomfortable.

I think it reminds me that there is this invisible fibre-optic network between NTs that somehow tunes them into exactly what the expected appropriate thing is to say and do... a network everyone is a part of but me (and possibly other people with ASD). It reminds me of how much I struggle in life, of how excluded I am from the world, of how no matter how successful I become, I will never really be appreciated the way I deserve to be. It reminds me that my friendship will never be something coveted, only something people do to "be nice." It reminds me that I'm essentially a charity case.

And it brings back a flood of emotions - all the depression, the anxiety, the fear, the feeling of being cheated out of a full life.

I know this sounds melodramatic but I was wondering if anyone here experienced this too or has anything to say on the matter.



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11 Apr 2014, 2:59 am

I don't think it sounds melodramatic. I've had similar experiences. It sucks to be aware enough to pick up that people think you made a gaffe, but not aware enough to have prevented (or even understand after the fact) said gaffe.

I tend to distance myself from people who do that too much around me. I can handle a little joking at my expense...as long as I'm included.


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aspieMD
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11 Apr 2014, 3:05 am

screen_name wrote:
I don't think it sounds melodramatic. I've had similar experiences. It sucks to be aware enough to pick up that people think you made a gaffe, but not aware enough to have prevented (or even understand after the fact) said gaffe.

I tend to distance myself from people who do that too much around me. I can handle a little joking at my expense...as long as I'm included.


EXACTLY! That's why AS is the worst (and why sometimes I envy people who don't know what's going on) - you're aware enough to know people are mocking you but not aware enough to know how to avoid being mocked.



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11 Apr 2014, 3:26 am

I do like to eventually find people who will explain these things to me. I have more than one person at my current job I feel comfortable asking them to explain those situations (and others) to me.

At my last job, I didn't have anyone to ask and also had a place of authority that made finding that type of help even harder. It was one of the most uncomfortable social situations I have ever been in.

I remember at that job telling someone that I had a second kid and that look you mentioned was exchanged between the person I was talking to and someone nearby. And then, more overtly later, giggling about my "second kid". I still don't have a clue what I said incorrectly. Speaking is so hard for me, experiences like those suck. I eventually made 100% of my interactions at that job in written format and stayed until there was a logical ending time and quit.

Do you ever find people that can "interpret" for you. I have several in my life right now. My favorites are those who admit to not getting it sometimes, too, or who can clearly understand where I'm coming from. If you don't have anyone like that, I'd highly encourage you to keep searching.


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So you know who just said that:
I am female, I am married
I have two children (one AS and one NT)
I have been diagnosed with Aspergers and MERLD
I have significant chronic medical conditions as well


MirrorWars
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11 Apr 2014, 3:30 am

I have experienced this many times.

It is when I say something that they ( NTs ) find weird or out of context.

I don't think that what I've said is weird or out of context, however.



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11 Apr 2014, 3:31 am

I have experienced this many times.

It is when I say something that they ( NTs ) find weird or out of context.

I don't think that what I've said is weird or out of context, however.



aspieMD
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11 Apr 2014, 3:41 am

I suspect they do it to bond, sort of a "yeah, we both know she's weird, this makes us better friends because we think alike!"

I think they deem me too socially ret*d to actually know what's going on, so they do it really obviously in front of me. And the awkward part is that I totally know what they just did at my expense, in such an exclusive, careless way, and I want to confront them, but I don't see any appropriate way of doing so.

Sometimes I look at each of them straight in the eye, smile (as if I'm about to laugh), and playfully ask, "what?" They respond by either looking at their feet or saying "nothing." Of course there is no way I can nudge further without going into "super-annoying-wheels-stuck-in-the-mud" territory, so I just stop there. That's why I pretty much never do it.

But 95% of the time I don't do anything, and they go on thinking I was too clueless to pick up what I presume was their discomfort-fueled exchange.



Last edited by aspieMD on 11 Apr 2014, 3:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

Falloy
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11 Apr 2014, 3:49 am

aspieMD wrote:
So there's this one look, which happens when I do something or say something that turned out maybe not to be the perfect thing an NT would have naturally said, that is enough to make me want to run into the bathroom and cry.

Two NTs look at each other. The corners of their mouths go up or down, and their eyebrows often raise. Sometimes they laugh nervously.

Has anyone else noticed this? Any NTs want to explain why they get so uncomfortable so easily and feel the need to diffuse the tension that way? Because when they do that it really does hurt me and make ME feel super uncomfortable.

I think it reminds me that there is this invisible fibre-optic network between NTs that somehow tunes them into exactly what the expected appropriate thing is to say and do... a network everyone is a part of but me (and possibly other people with ASD). It reminds me of how much I struggle in life, of how excluded I am from the world, of how no matter how successful I become, I will never really be appreciated the way I deserve to be. It reminds me that my friendship will never be something coveted, only something people do to "be nice." It reminds me that I'm essentially a charity case.

And it brings back a flood of emotions - all the depression, the anxiety, the fear, the feeling of being cheated out of a full life.

I know this sounds melodramatic but I was wondering if anyone here experienced this too or has anything to say on the matter.


I've been through this many times and this post superbly describes how heartbreaking the experience is.

Over the years I have improved my social skills but little things like this particular situation always hammer home that I haven't improved them enough.

Sometimes I've noticed this look happen when I haven't even spoken so it must be something to do with my facial expression, body posture or body language.

I'm sure some people aren't doing it to be hurtful and they really do like me in spite of my awkwardness, but it's a reminder that I will never be quite on their level.

I'm equally sure that some people (younger and more insecure people maybe) are doing to score points off me and to express to one another without words "Look at this jerk - we're better than him, aren't we? We'd never do anything that stupid. We're better than he is".



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11 Apr 2014, 3:51 am

screen_name wrote:
I do like to eventually find people who will explain these things to me. I have more than one person at my current job I feel comfortable asking them to explain those situations (and others) to me.

At my last job, I didn't have anyone to ask and also had a place of authority that made finding that type of help even harder. It was one of the most uncomfortable social situations I have ever been in.

I remember at that job telling someone that I had a second kid and that look you mentioned was exchanged between the person I was talking to and someone nearby. And then, more overtly later, giggling about my "second kid". I still don't have a clue what I said incorrectly. Speaking is so hard for me, experiences like those suck. I eventually made 100% of my interactions at that job in written format and stayed until there was a logical ending time and quit.

Do you ever find people that can "interpret" for you. I have several in my life right now. My favorites are those who admit to not getting it sometimes, too, or who can clearly understand where I'm coming from. If you don't have anyone like that, I'd highly encourage you to keep searching.


It's strange actually, because my close friends don't seem to act like there's anything wrong with me, and most don't even know I have AS (the only ones who do are also on the spectrum). I usually do a good job of hiding my struggles with certain social interactions with my friends (whom I feel comfortable around), because it is often my anxiety that brings out my AS. So to people with whom I have a lot in common, who make me feel comfortable, I interact seamlessly and seem normal. Thus, I feel that asking them to be my "interpreter" or nudging such a relationship more covertly, would be sort of awkward and may open a can of worms that would upset the balance and normalcy of our friendship. After all, I don't want it to morph into a "tutor and tutee" relationship where one has power over the other just for being NT.



aspieMD
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11 Apr 2014, 3:58 am

Falloy wrote:
aspieMD wrote:
So there's this one look, which happens when I do something or say something that turned out maybe not to be the perfect thing an NT would have naturally said, that is enough to make me want to run into the bathroom and cry.

Two NTs look at each other. The corners of their mouths go up or down, and their eyebrows often raise. Sometimes they laugh nervously.

Has anyone else noticed this? Any NTs want to explain why they get so uncomfortable so easily and feel the need to diffuse the tension that way? Because when they do that it really does hurt me and make ME feel super uncomfortable.

I think it reminds me that there is this invisible fibre-optic network between NTs that somehow tunes them into exactly what the expected appropriate thing is to say and do... a network everyone is a part of but me (and possibly other people with ASD). It reminds me of how much I struggle in life, of how excluded I am from the world, of how no matter how successful I become, I will never really be appreciated the way I deserve to be. It reminds me that my friendship will never be something coveted, only something people do to "be nice." It reminds me that I'm essentially a charity case.

And it brings back a flood of emotions - all the depression, the anxiety, the fear, the feeling of being cheated out of a full life.

I know this sounds melodramatic but I was wondering if anyone here experienced this too or has anything to say on the matter.


I've been through this many times and this post superbly describes how heartbreaking the experience is.

Over the years I have improved my social skills but little things like this particular situation always hammer home that I haven't improved them enough.

Sometimes I've noticed this look happen when I haven't even spoken so it must be something to do with my facial expression, body posture or body language.

I'm sure some people aren't doing it to be hurtful and they really do like me in spite of my awkwardness, but it's a reminder that I will never be quite on their level.

I'm equally sure that some people (younger and more insecure people maybe) are doing to score points off me and to express to one another without words "Look at this jerk - we're better than him, aren't we? We'd never do anything that stupid. We're better than he is".


YES YES AND MORE YES!! !

I feel like this is a consistent problem with very high-functioning ASDs who seem normal most of the time, so the occasional weird behaviour is unexpected, and NTs don't like when expectations aren't met. Also since NTs sort of label you as "normal", rather than "special needs, take behaviour into context, be nice but keep at arms length because she's too different, and treat differently," when you do something weird it upsets their labeling system (and therefore undermines them, so they need to save face in a way), or makes it seem like you did it on purpose because you're careless or mean or mocking/condescending or whatever.



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11 Apr 2014, 7:53 am

Don't overestimate NT's---they're VERY weird at times! They say the wrong thing. They embarrass themselves.

It is more "automatic" with them, though.

Also: Maybe, just at the point of you saying the "wrong thing", NT's aren't joking at your expense; maybe they are sharing a "private joke" among themselves; perhaps, they don't even know you're in the room.



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11 Apr 2014, 6:35 pm

aspieMD wrote:
So there's this one look, which happens when I do something or say something that turned out maybe not to be the perfect thing an NT would have naturally said, that is enough to make me want to run into the bathroom and cry.

Two NTs look at each other. The corners of their mouths go up or down, and their eyebrows often raise. Sometimes they laugh nervously.

Has anyone else noticed this? Any NTs want to explain why they get so uncomfortable so easily and feel the need to diffuse the tension that way? Because when they do that it really does hurt me and make ME feel super uncomfortable.

I think it reminds me that there is this invisible fibre-optic network between NTs that somehow tunes them into exactly what the expected appropriate thing is to say and do... a network everyone is a part of but me (and possibly other people with ASD). It reminds me of how much I struggle in life, of how excluded I am from the world, of how no matter how successful I become, I will never really be appreciated the way I deserve to be. It reminds me that my friendship will never be something coveted, only something people do to "be nice." It reminds me that I'm essentially a charity case.

And it brings back a flood of emotions - all the depression, the anxiety, the fear, the feeling of being cheated out of a full life.

I know this sounds melodramatic but I was wondering if anyone here experienced this too or has anything to say on the matter.


I loved reading this post. I can really relate to it. You described it perfectly, not melodramatic at all.

Next time it happens headbutt the one closest to you then stare at the other one with a crazy look and your eye and yell "You want some too?! Huh?!". Please - do it for me.



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11 Apr 2014, 9:07 pm

uiop1234 wrote:
aspieMD wrote:
So there's this one look, which happens when I do something or say something that turned out maybe not to be the perfect thing an NT would have naturally said, that is enough to make me want to run into the bathroom and cry.

Two NTs look at each other. The corners of their mouths go up or down, and their eyebrows often raise. Sometimes they laugh nervously.

Has anyone else noticed this? Any NTs want to explain why they get so uncomfortable so easily and feel the need to diffuse the tension that way? Because when they do that it really does hurt me and make ME feel super uncomfortable.

I think it reminds me that there is this invisible fibre-optic network between NTs that somehow tunes them into exactly what the expected appropriate thing is to say and do... a network everyone is a part of but me (and possibly other people with ASD). It reminds me of how much I struggle in life, of how excluded I am from the world, of how no matter how successful I become, I will never really be appreciated the way I deserve to be. It reminds me that my friendship will never be something coveted, only something people do to "be nice." It reminds me that I'm essentially a charity case.

And it brings back a flood of emotions - all the depression, the anxiety, the fear, the feeling of being cheated out of a full life.

I know this sounds melodramatic but I was wondering if anyone here experienced this too or has anything to say on the matter.


I loved reading this post. I can really relate to it. You described it perfectly, not melodramatic at all.

Next time it happens headbutt the one closest to you then stare at the other one with a crazy look and your eye and yell "You want some too?! Huh?!". Please - do it for me.
Why hate them for being what they are by nature, just as you are not?

They can't help sharing expectations about the conduct of others and being shocked when those shared expectations are broken. The rest of the looking business could be nervousness or it could be bitchiness. I am not good at interpreting such things. Life seems to go better when I don't overinterpret those looks, though.

I think the little mouth expressions are more of a female thing. The raised eyebrow is the universal sign for "WTF?" and means you just did an unexpected thing and they are surprised. Nothing more.

The smirking sort of thing might be a way of dealing with that surprise. But they are probably not more capable of not reacting that way than you are of doing whatever it is that surprises them.



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11 Apr 2014, 9:13 pm

aspieMD wrote:
So there's this one look, which happens when I do something or say something that turned out maybe not to be the perfect thing an NT would have naturally said, that is enough to make me want to run into the bathroom and cry.

Two NTs look at each other. The corners of their mouths go up or down, and their eyebrows often raise. Sometimes they laugh nervously.

Has anyone else noticed this? Any NTs want to explain why they get so uncomfortable so easily and feel the need to diffuse the tension that way? Because when they do that it really does hurt me and make ME feel super uncomfortable.


Alternative explanation: what you said went right over their heads (but that doesn't make it "wrong") and, rather than admit it, they try to turn the tables to make it seem like you're the clueless one...when it's actually them. :P The "laughing nervously" may be a clue to that.

And yes, I am being completely serious here.


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11 Apr 2014, 10:51 pm

aspieMD wrote:
Two NTs look at each other. The corners of their mouths go up or down, and their eyebrows often raise. Sometimes they laugh nervously.

[...]

wondering if anyone here experienced this too or has anything to say on the matter.


In that situation I might just ask them what was going on.

My standard phrases for when people (meaning 2 or more people) suddenly go quiet or start laughing after I say something are, "What?" "What's so funny?" and "What did I say?" (Television gets all the credit for those.)

If my words flowed better I would ask something more specific, like, "Why are you looking at each other like that? What did I say?"

Sometimes people answer, and sometimes they don't -- but I learn things when they do, and I personally don't lose anything by asking (not assuming this would be the same for you or that you'd even want to/feel comfortable/be able to ask in the first place, just sharing my own experience).


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12 Apr 2014, 3:17 am

AAA! I know that "Look." Suddenly they aren't your friends anymore - they're conspiring against you, gloating over your inept worthlessness, sympathizing with one another's dismay. :roll: