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Graelwyn
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04 Mar 2007, 12:16 am

If you put effort into it? What I mean by this is, can you do this intellectually? Um, hard to explain this, but although when in the spur of an angry moment or when I am emotionally upset, I cannot empathise at all, in calmer moments, if I am in a certain mood and think about it, I can sort of see how another might be feeling. An example is the thread in haven on the guy's brother. I read it, and I thought about it, and I thought, well acting vain etc can be a cover for a lack of confidence...sort of an overcompensation...it can also be a sign of narcissism. Talking loud etc, can also be a sign of a lack of confidence...everything can have a possible psychological reason behind it. Each person reacts in a different way to their thought, feelings, insecurites, experiences etc... and I suppose this is empathy of a sorts as I am attempting to understand why that person's brother might not simply be a pain in the backside, but might have his own problems.

I am really at a loss with the Asperger's empathy thing because at times, when it comes to my own experiences, I can be painfully blind to anyone else having their own issues, thoughts and feelings...but with other peoples' experiences etc, I can psychologically figure it out etc.

Not sure if I have explained myself well at all, but I am sure people can get some idea what I mean.

I rarely 'feel' for another person, but I can 'think' for a person... I can often work out the various motivations for their behaviours by psychologically analysing them and going on all I have learnt from my own experiences and from books, movies etc. I am actually very adept generally at analysing other's behaviours and what might be behind them.

Anyone else?


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04 Mar 2007, 12:27 am

yeah i'm pretty much terrible at empathy, what i dont get is why you need to feel what someone else is feeling. this means i cannot attend funerals because i laugh. the last funeral i went to was my stepdads, dads funeral and when i went up to look at him i kept seeing in my minds eye his eyes rolling back and hitting all cherrys like in a slot machine i could not get this out of my head wich in turn made me laugh. everyone was after me then. i was almost beaten right there. hahahaha


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04 Mar 2007, 12:40 am

Empathy for me is kind of like how high school curriculum was for me. I was a bad student, because I'm always daydreaming and staring out the window, but once someone goes, "Jeremy!" my attention jerks back to wherever it's expected to be (but doesn't stay). By which I mean, I have the capacity to empathize, it's just not always my first instinct. I think this has more to do with how I perceive people's problems intellectually, because, coming from someone with the perspective of an aspie, most of the things people get upset about are trivial. I know that sounds cold of me to say, but for example, have you ever seen someone tell what can only be a lie that they're fully aware of, or go off on a tangent that obviously involves exaggerated or imagined emotional elements, and get tearful or emotional while telling it? That's the way people work. Emotions don't always correspond to reality. I'm getting angry typing this because I know that if a psychologist were to read that, he'd say something like, "ah yes, typical autistic overintellectualization of the mystical human experience" or some other snot, but there's a midway point here. And believe me, I've been in situations where I can be sure that I'm not misinterpreting what's going on; if you think I might be, think about drunk people. They'll "emote" all over a person that've they've met five minutes ago but now consider their best friend, they'd take a bullet for that person... That's the attention span our emotional spectrum has. I "feel" empathy for a person when the little cynic inside my head decides I do.



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04 Mar 2007, 12:44 am

maldoror wrote:
Empathy for me is kind of like how high school curriculum was for me. I was a bad student, because I'm always daydreaming and staring out the window, but once someone goes, "Jeremy!" my attention jerks back to wherever it's expected to be (but doesn't stay). By which I mean, I have the capacity to empathize, it's just not always my first instinct. I think this has more to do with how I perceive people's problems intellectually, because, coming from someone with the perspective of an aspie, most of the things people get upset about are trivial. I know that sounds cold of me to say, but for example, have you ever seen someone tell what can only be a lie that they're fully aware of, or go off on a tangent that obviously involves exaggerated or imagined emotional elements, and get tearful or emotional while telling it? That's the way people work. Emotions don't always correspond to reality. I'm getting angry typing this because I know that if a psychologist were to read that, he'd say something like, "ah yes, typical autistic overintellectualization of the mystical human experience" or some other snot, but there's a midway point here. And believe me, I've been in situations where I can be sure that I'm not misinterpreting what's going on; if you think I might be, think about drunk people. They'll "emote" all over a person that've they've met five minutes ago but now consider their best friend, they'd "take a bullet" for that person... That's the attention span our "emotional spectrum" has. I "feel" empathy for a person when the little cynic inside my head decides I do.



You talk on my wavelength.. I agree regarding human emotional reactions. They are beyond me to be honest. When I talk about things, I never generally talk about anything that might make me tearful, and if I do happen to do so, I underplay and try and turn away and say something to eliminate that tearfulness as fast as I can. I abhor nothing more than pity and all that stuff. I really do. I intellectualise and through this, I find I can understand...but it is hard as I have no measure of what 'normal' is? How do NT's empathise and understand others as I always assumed they did it the same way...compared it to their own past experiences, or to things they learnt from observation or from just analysing using knowledge they have learnt in the past... I mean, how else can you do it?


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maldoror
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04 Mar 2007, 1:02 am

I don't know.. I just know that it's a rare thing for me, but sometimes it will catch me off guard where I just start feeling for a person in some freakish way. For example when I meet the families of friends, and spend enough time with them, I feel like I start seeing their drives and frustrations with each other just by the way they communicate. That seems normal, in a way, but it affects me in a different way than it does other people, because I can't tap in to the energy of interaction as well. I have more thought left to look at it from the outside, and I always think about how they'll never resolve or get beyond or be more aware of their interactions, but only at small intervals will they start to understand things and probably we'll all die without ever fully understanding each other. Whenever I get emotional, it usually comes out of something like that.

Also, whatever "normal" is that's definately not it. :P



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04 Mar 2007, 2:54 am

I'm relatively empathetic, but when you've been taught growing up that it's not ok to cry or show any emotion, I've hid my empathy to the point where I've been accused of lacking it. I have gotten the giggles really bad at funerals, the last time was at a friend's funeral, whose death was as a result of a mudrer/suicide by his dad. I just thought of a hillarious memory, which is what brought on the giggles. I had been crying previously, so I just wiped my eyes to make it look like I was still crying instead of trying to stifle the giggles.


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04 Mar 2007, 9:42 am

Graelwyn wrote:
maldoror wrote:
Empathy for me is kind of like how high school curriculum was for me. I was a bad student, because I'm always daydreaming and staring out the window, but once someone goes, "Jeremy!" my attention jerks back to wherever it's expected to be (but doesn't stay). By which I mean, I have the capacity to empathize, it's just not always my first instinct. I think this has more to do with how I perceive people's problems intellectually, because, coming from someone with the perspective of an aspie, most of the things people get upset about are trivial. I know that sounds cold of me to say, but for example, have you ever seen someone tell what can only be a lie that they're fully aware of, or go off on a tangent that obviously involves exaggerated or imagined emotional elements, and get tearful or emotional while telling it? That's the way people work. Emotions don't always correspond to reality. I'm getting angry typing this because I know that if a psychologist were to read that, he'd say something like, "ah yes, typical autistic overintellectualization of the mystical human experience" or some other snot, but there's a midway point here. And believe me, I've been in situations where I can be sure that I'm not misinterpreting what's going on; if you think I might be, think about drunk people. They'll "emote" all over a person that've they've met five minutes ago but now consider their best friend, they'd "take a bullet" for that person... That's the attention span our "emotional spectrum" has. I "feel" empathy for a person when the little cynic inside my head decides I do.


Graelwyn,

No, they don't intellectualize it at all. They actually experience the emotion as if they were experiencing it.


I tend to come across cold because I have to go off and think about the situation then decide what should be done about it. I empathize with people if they are experiences I understand or have had. I lost my father and it was very hard because I was very close to him. I miss having him around. If someone else loses a parent, I empathize with that. I might not get all gushy in how I express it, but I feel badly for them that their parent wont' be around. Even before I lost my father, if someone lost theirs, I would think when that happens to me, I am going to really miss him. So, I would feel empathy for their loss.

It takes normal people a long time to realize that I actually do have empathy because I don't appear as if I do. Like I said, I come across as very cold and unfeeling. But, eventually, if they are around me long enough, they realize that isn't true, I just show it differently.

There are times though when I don't empathize because I think they are just silly. Maldoror had the perfect example of that. There are people who are addicted to drama and I have no tolerance for that.


You talk on my wavelength.. I agree regarding human emotional reactions. They are beyond me to be honest. When I talk about things, I never generally talk about anything that might make me tearful, and if I do happen to do so, I underplay and try and turn away and say something to eliminate that tearfulness as fast as I can. I abhor nothing more than pity and all that stuff. I really do. I intellectualise and through this, I find I can understand...but it is hard as I have no measure of what 'normal' is? How do NT's empathise and understand others as I always assumed they did it the same way...compared it to their own past experiences, or to things they learnt from observation or from just analysing using knowledge they have learnt in the past... I mean, how else can you do it?



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04 Mar 2007, 10:34 am

I can empathize with people who share common experiences with me. For example, I find it easy to empathize with the people on my Internet cat site because I have been through similar things with my own cats.



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04 Mar 2007, 10:38 am

Of course I can empathize because I am a very positive person!


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Graelwyn
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04 Mar 2007, 12:52 pm

ADoyle wrote:
I'm relatively empathetic, but when you've been taught growing up that it's not ok to cry or show any emotion, I've hid my empathy to the point where I've been accused of lacking it. I have gotten the giggles really bad at funerals, the last time was at a friend's funeral, whose death was as a result of a mudrer/suicide by his dad. I just thought of a hillarious memory, which is what brought on the giggles. I had been crying previously, so I just wiped my eyes to make it look like I was still crying instead of trying to stifle the giggles.


You see, I just considered that to be normal. I have many times erupted in giggles when I am supposed to look chastised or sorry. I just seem unable to help it. Something comical will cross my mind, or I will see something that amuses me and just start giggling. I so totally identify with what you have said. I wonder why this happens...and is it just an AS thing or do NT people get this crying/giggling effect too?


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Graelwyn
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04 Mar 2007, 1:00 pm

ZanneMarie wrote:
Graelwyn wrote:
maldoror wrote:
Empathy for me is kind of like how high school curriculum was for me. I was a bad student, because I'm always daydreaming and staring out the window, but once someone goes, "Jeremy!" my attention jerks back to wherever it's expected to be (but doesn't stay). By which I mean, I have the capacity to empathize, it's just not always my first instinct. I think this has more to do with how I perceive people's problems intellectually, because, coming from someone with the perspective of an aspie, most of the things people get upset about are trivial. I know that sounds cold of me to say, but for example, have you ever seen someone tell what can only be a lie that they're fully aware of, or go off on a tangent that obviously involves exaggerated or imagined emotional elements, and get tearful or emotional while telling it? That's the way people work. Emotions don't always correspond to reality. I'm getting angry typing this because I know that if a psychologist were to read that, he'd say something like, "ah yes, typical autistic overintellectualization of the mystical human experience" or some other snot, but there's a midway point here. And believe me, I've been in situations where I can be sure that I'm not misinterpreting what's going on; if you think I might be, think about drunk people. They'll "emote" all over a person that've they've met five minutes ago but now consider their best friend, they'd "take a bullet" for that person... That's the attention span our "emotional spectrum" has. I "feel" empathy for a person when the little cynic inside my head decides I do.


Graelwyn,

No, they don't intellectualize it at all. They actually experience the emotion as if they were experiencing it.


I tend to come across cold because I have to go off and think about the situation then decide what should be done about it. I empathize with people if they are experiences I understand or have had. I lost my father and it was very hard because I was very close to him. I miss having him around. If someone else loses a parent, I empathize with that. I might not get all gushy in how I express it, but I feel badly for them that their parent wont' be around. Even before I lost my father, if someone lost theirs, I would think when that happens to me, I am going to really miss him. So, I would feel empathy for their loss.

It takes normal people a long time to realize that I actually do have empathy because I don't appear as if I do. Like I said, I come across as very cold and unfeeling. But, eventually, if they are around me long enough, they realize that isn't true, I just show it differently.

There are times though when I don't empathize because I think they are just silly. Maldoror had the perfect example of that. There are people who are addicted to drama and I have no tolerance for that.


You talk on my wavelength.. I agree regarding human emotional reactions. They are beyond me to be honest. When I talk about things, I never generally talk about anything that might make me tearful, and if I do happen to do so, I underplay and try and turn away and say something to eliminate that tearfulness as fast as I can. I abhor nothing more than pity and all that stuff. I really do. I intellectualise and through this, I find I can understand...but it is hard as I have no measure of what 'normal' is? How do NT's empathise and understand others as I always assumed they did it the same way...compared it to their own past experiences, or to things they learnt from observation or from just analysing using knowledge they have learnt in the past... I mean, how else can you do it?



I cannot fathom being able to 'feel' the emotion another is feeling at that time. It just doesn't happen with me. When my gran died, I felt nothing...and then I was wondering why I didn't feel anything, and I lay in bed listening to my music, trying to force myself to feel something. I didn't really experience any sadness until a load of visual memories of her when I was a child came back to me a year later. I just assumed maybe I was numb or something. When my friend told me his father had died, I didn't feel anything. I have no concept of how I would feel if a parent died, and I spend some time worrying in case when my parents die, I wont feel anything then I will consider myself to be a cold and sociopathic kind of person or something. I feel wrong for not feeling more and for not really feeling and concern for others a lot of the time. The only time I feel strong emotions for others is if it is anger...or if that person is an obsessive interest.


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04 Mar 2007, 2:17 pm

Graelwyn wrote:
If you put effort into it? What I mean by this is, can you do this intellectually? Um, hard to explain this, but although when in the spur of an angry moment or when I am emotionally upset, I cannot empathise at all, in calmer moments, if I am in a certain mood and think about it, I can sort of see how another might be feeling.

I am really at a loss with the Asperger's empathy thing because at times, when it comes to my own experiences, I can be painfully blind to anyone else having their own issues, thoughts and feelings...but with other peoples' experiences etc, I can psychologically figure it out etc.

Not sure if I have explained myself well at all, but I am sure people can get some idea what I mean.

I rarely 'feel' for another person, but I can 'think' for a person... Anyone else?


Yep! I get that completely. I feel more emotion for a character in a book or film than I can muster up for people - that's where the intellectualising comes in for me. You said it better than I ever could!

And forget knowing how to react when people are upset/crying/angry... I find the fastest way get away and leave them the hell alone! I don't get the huggy conforting/consoling thing either. The only time I've ever done that was when I accompanied my best friend, her children and step-mother to her father's burial. She had to have me there - in fact, I was the only non- family there at all! I managed to put my arm on her shoulder - that was all I could muster - but she understood, even then, how hard touch and empathy was for me (and that was way before either of us knew about my possibly having AS). I still can't handle it if she crys, though!



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04 Mar 2007, 2:36 pm

i constantly worry about what other ppl are feeling... but only if i'm not somehow directly involved in a situation already. it's like a hyper preventative behavior... like how i've trained myself to do body checks for my keys, wallet, and cellphone (i emphatically refuse to carry a purse cause i hate them) every 15 min or say before i leave a room.

but when situations arise, as they alsways do,... i find that i'm pretty oblivious to things (other people). and especially in arguments or in emotional states where i've upset someone... i have a hard time conceding any ground on my behalf.... especially if the other person is already more emotional than me. if i'm already fried and crying, then i can deal with the other person being down there with me... still not gonna be productive... but at least barriers are down... but if someone starts crying before me... then that just puckers my emotional sphinktor right up! this has been a real issue for me in past relationships, especially my last one cause the guy would cry at the drop of a hat (and no i don't care about guys crying, the other stuff was always great, i can keep that stuff separate :twisted: )... but i never knew what to do when he would do this... it took all of me just to walk off so i didn't give him a real piece of my mind (which they don't want to hear)


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04 Mar 2007, 5:25 pm

Graelwyn wrote:
ZanneMarie wrote:
Graelwyn wrote:
maldoror wrote:
Empathy for me is kind of like how high school curriculum was for me. I was a bad student, because I'm always daydreaming and staring out the window, but once someone goes, "Jeremy!" my attention jerks back to wherever it's expected to be (but doesn't stay). By which I mean, I have the capacity to empathize, it's just not always my first instinct. I think this has more to do with how I perceive people's problems intellectually, because, coming from someone with the perspective of an aspie, most of the things people get upset about are trivial. I know that sounds cold of me to say, but for example, have you ever seen someone tell what can only be a lie that they're fully aware of, or go off on a tangent that obviously involves exaggerated or imagined emotional elements, and get tearful or emotional while telling it? That's the way people work. Emotions don't always correspond to reality. I'm getting angry typing this because I know that if a psychologist were to read that, he'd say something like, "ah yes, typical autistic overintellectualization of the mystical human experience" or some other snot, but there's a midway point here. And believe me, I've been in situations where I can be sure that I'm not misinterpreting what's going on; if you think I might be, think about drunk people. They'll "emote" all over a person that've they've met five minutes ago but now consider their best friend, they'd "take a bullet" for that person... That's the attention span our "emotional spectrum" has. I "feel" empathy for a person when the little cynic inside my head decides I do.


Graelwyn,

No, they don't intellectualize it at all. They actually experience the emotion as if they were experiencing it.


I tend to come across cold because I have to go off and think about the situation then decide what should be done about it. I empathize with people if they are experiences I understand or have had. I lost my father and it was very hard because I was very close to him. I miss having him around. If someone else loses a parent, I empathize with that. I might not get all gushy in how I express it, but I feel badly for them that their parent wont' be around. Even before I lost my father, if someone lost theirs, I would think when that happens to me, I am going to really miss him. So, I would feel empathy for their loss.

It takes normal people a long time to realize that I actually do have empathy because I don't appear as if I do. Like I said, I come across as very cold and unfeeling. But, eventually, if they are around me long enough, they realize that isn't true, I just show it differently.

There are times though when I don't empathize because I think they are just silly. Maldoror had the perfect example of that. There are people who are addicted to drama and I have no tolerance for that.


You talk on my wavelength.. I agree regarding human emotional reactions. They are beyond me to be honest. When I talk about things, I never generally talk about anything that might make me tearful, and if I do happen to do so, I underplay and try and turn away and say something to eliminate that tearfulness as fast as I can. I abhor nothing more than pity and all that stuff. I really do. I intellectualise and through this, I find I can understand...but it is hard as I have no measure of what 'normal' is? How do NT's empathise and understand others as I always assumed they did it the same way...compared it to their own past experiences, or to things they learnt from observation or from just analysing using knowledge they have learnt in the past... I mean, how else can you do it?



I cannot fathom being able to 'feel' the emotion another is feeling at that time. It just doesn't happen with me. When my gran died, I felt nothing...and then I was wondering why I didn't feel anything, and I lay in bed listening to my music, trying to force myself to feel something. I didn't really experience any sadness until a load of visual memories of her when I was a child came back to me a year later. I just assumed maybe I was numb or something. When my friend told me his father had died, I didn't feel anything. I have no concept of how I would feel if a parent died, and I spend some time worrying in case when my parents die, I wont feel anything then I will consider myself to be a cold and sociopathic kind of person or something. I feel wrong for not feeling more and for not really feeling and concern for others a lot of the time. The only time I feel strong emotions for others is if it is anger...or if that person is an obsessive interest.


Actually, your reaction to your grandmother is not so strange, you are just honest. Most people are in shock at first and feel nothing until something sets off a good memory. Then you are kind of sad that you won't have any more of those. That's what grief is. So, you are normal. There is no time frame on when you should remember or how long the shock effect will last. It depends too on how much you saw each other.

I don't understand the feeling what they are feeling is either, but that is what they do and what we don't.



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04 Mar 2007, 5:27 pm

Graelwyn wrote:
ADoyle wrote:
I'm relatively empathetic, but when you've been taught growing up that it's not ok to cry or show any emotion, I've hid my empathy to the point where I've been accused of lacking it. I have gotten the giggles really bad at funerals, the last time was at a friend's funeral, whose death was as a result of a mudrer/suicide by his dad. I just thought of a hillarious memory, which is what brought on the giggles. I had been crying previously, so I just wiped my eyes to make it look like I was still crying instead of trying to stifle the giggles.


You see, I just considered that to be normal. I have many times erupted in giggles when I am supposed to look chastised or sorry. I just seem unable to help it. Something comical will cross my mind, or I will see something that amuses me and just start giggling. I so totally identify with what you have said. I wonder why this happens...and is it just an AS thing or do NT people get this crying/giggling effect too?


It's just your brain misprocessing the information, that's all. It doesn't send back the normal response.



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04 Mar 2007, 5:31 pm

Sedaka wrote:
i constantly worry about what other ppl are feeling... but only if i'm not somehow directly involved in a situation already. it's like a hyper preventative behavior... like how i've trained myself to do body checks for my keys, wallet, and cellphone (i emphatically refuse to carry a purse cause i hate them) every 15 min or say before i leave a room.

but when situations arise, as they alsways do,... i find that i'm pretty oblivious to things (other people). and especially in arguments or in emotional states where i've upset someone... i have a hard time conceding any ground on my behalf.... especially if the other person is already more emotional than me. if i'm already fried and crying, then i can deal with the other person being down there with me... still not gonna be productive... but at least barriers are down... but if someone starts crying before me... then that just puckers my emotional sphinktor right up! this has been a real issue for me in past relationships, especially my last one cause the guy would cry at the drop of a hat (and no i don't care about guys crying, the other stuff was always great, i can keep that stuff separate :twisted: )... but i never knew what to do when he would do this... it took all of me just to walk off so i didn't give him a real piece of my mind (which they don't want to hear)


I freeze with emotional displays and don't know how to respond. I just end up looking blank which is often misinterpreted for I don't care. I have to go off and think about things. I can't respond instantly with emotion or to emotion either.