Confusion over ASD cliches/stereotypes versus NT behavior

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I do not currently have a diagnosis, so maybe some will find this post unwarranted, but does anyone find some of the stereotypes or traits assigned to anyone on the spectrum to be unfair or confusing?

For example, the so-called lack of empathy. It seems that many NTs lack empathy in their failing to understand anyone with an autism diagnosis (or many mental health or ID diagnoses, for that matter). Many NTs fail to find sympathy with, say, college rap victims or sweatshop laborers. I'm sure they feel some empathy inside, but they choose to avoid addressing these issues. It seems that the lack of empathy assigned to individuals with ASD has more to do with their lack of mirroring NTs emotionally and/or behaviorally. In other words, if you don't see their minor problem as the end-of-the-world fiasco they think it is, then you have no empathy. But that's not the same as truly lacking empathy. When I deal with individuals at work who express some emotional issue in their life, I have to make a real effort to sound emotional and empathetic. If I don't, they often think I don't care or that they're boring me. The truth is, I may not feel a lot of emotion in that moment, but I will often spend days thinking through their problem and "putting myself in their shoes." I think that is empathetic. On the other hand, when I start talking to them I'm frequently interrupted and not listened to.

I've also been accused of black and white thinking a lot, but it seems strange that NTs are not labelled this way due to a social history of racism, sexism, or homophobia. Which isn't to say NTs are the only ones have those beliefs, but that is very simplistic and rigid thinking.

I guess this goes to show that, as others have posted here, the real truth is that everyone is a little different. The reality of these traits just makes it harder to understand any concept of NT v. ASD, though I guess the ASD difference revolves more around communication and interpretation of information, not whether one feels emotions, empathy, etc.

I would agree. The thing about the diagnostic criteria is that they're descriptions for how an NT psychologist would see someone on the spectrum, not necessarily descriptions of how we actually experience things. There's some bit of disconnect between what NT doctors/psychologists see as significant markers and what people on the spectrum see as significant.

For example, one of the criteria is something like "limited social and emotional reciprocity". Basically doctors are looking for fewer or shallower interpersonal relationships than is typical with NTs. However, fewer or shallower relationships is not something inherent to the autism spectrum. It doesn't say anything about the way your mind works or why it works that way. It's just a byproduct of the disconnect between how our minds work and how those of our NT peers work.

We have fewer relationships because they demand a lot from us/can be very stressful. They're demanding/stressful because of things like alexithymia or difficulty reading non-verbal communication. Those are the real traits inherent to autism. But a doctor can't easily measure or observe how well you can recognize your emotions or how well you understand a certain facial expression. So instead they look for these second and third order removed symptoms like "limited social and emotional reciprocity".

It's a crude instrument at best, and I think it reinforces a lot of poor stereotypes about people on the spectrum as well as making it more difficult for people on the spectrum to see it in themselves and discern what ways it impacts them in their day to day lives.

This topic caused me to reflect on the now quite large number of medical professionals I have interacted with in my life, and for the purposes of this topic, I am going to assume that they were all NT, which is probably at least 95% correct.

They seem to fall into 3 broad camps: a) no apparent empathy, b) some empathy, ranging from not a lot but some to quite a bit c) a great deal of empathy. In percentages I would say: the first group, an alarming 30%; the second group about 68%; and the last group 2%.

In the wider scheme of life, not just medical practice, perhaps the problem is that NTs tend to reserve their empathy for other NTs, people they identify with.

Generally I notice that the of the NTs I know, compared to the ASDs I know (including me!), the latter show far more empathy for animals and their suffering. (I belong to some groups that work for a better deal for animals, and in such groups I would guess that they are Aspergers dominant - one of the few places were people on the spectrum always seem to be in the majority).

I resent the implication that autism means no empathy, it is a myth, a very toxic myth. A small percentage in any group at all will have no empathy at all, but they don't describe the majority. Or they may not show empathy in the ways that NTs like to show it (uninvited hugs for example).

One of the perceptual issues in this, I think, is that people on the spectrum tend to smile less than others; this is misinterpreted as lacking empathy. It's false; we show empathy in other ways.

When a very much loved friend died, his NT friends went to the funeral and then stopped talking about him or referring to his life at all - it was as if he had never existed once the funeral was over. I wrote to his widow, expressing my condolences for her loss, remembering his great tendency of kindness (I think he was on the spectrum) and his love for her. I send her a message on the anniversary of his death, and she likes the opportunity to share her ongoing love for him. She told me that no-one else other than his adult siblings and me ever refers to him at all, and I could sense her pain about this. There is something about this that bothers me; it's hard to articulate. Was it that when he was no longer around to contribute things socially to the NTs, he no longer mattered? I hope this isn't the case, yet I have the uneasy suspicion that it is. He was a wonderful cook and a very generous, sincere man; during his lifetime his friends on and off the spectrum valued those things. After his death?

This is a very big topic and I could go on for a long time. It is quite a painful topic actually.

I also tend to think the no empathy thing is a myth.

I think it may come from not being able to tell what emotions people are expressing. I also think that autistics are often not good at expressing emotion. This is mistaken for not feeling any.

I also think we may favor logic over emotion which can be perceived as cold.

I think both of these stereotypes come from people having trouble with words that have different definitions (ugh, don't get me started on the word "marriage").

I've managed to nail down five different concepts for what people might mean when they say "empathy," and the two that are in the dictionary are NOT the two that are most commonly used in psychology media. The concepts are completely different things that just happen to share the same word due to a quirk of language. Imagine if "being tall" and "having blue eyes" had the same word; it would make the masses think all blue-eyed people are tall, or that someone's claiming that to be so, even though that's a stupid thing to think. But people think that about empathy. Of those five things "empathy" can refer to, there's ONE of them that autistic people often have problems with. The other four are unrelated, but people can't get it into their heads that they are different things! So they think you have problems with all of them.

"Black and white thinking" seems to have the same problem except I haven't even figured out any of its meanings. There is another recent topic on black and white thinking, and people seem to be talking about at least two different things. But, insufficiant capacity to understand nuance is way to owidespread of a problem to be limited to autistic people or even BAP people.

It seem to me

NT having empathy for other NTs = NTs have great empathy skills

Aspies having empathy for other Aspies = Aspies lack empathy

Such an unfair assumption but it's what it seems to me. This empathy thing seems to have worked it's way to the top of the ASD symptoms list, making people get too carried away and just assuming Aspies lack empathy, when actually, we don't.

Here's another example:-

Jane has recently split up from her boyfriend, and is deeply upset. She won't stop crying about it to her best friend Amy, and Amy is there for her and listens to her and understands how she must be feeling. After a few months, Jane is still crying about it to Amy and doesn't seem to be getting over it. Amy is now getting a bit fed up with hearing the same thing over and over for months, and is now telling her to try to talk about something else and try to forget about her ex. Amy tells this to their other friends and they agree with Amy and say it's normal to be there for someone at first but after months of crying about it, people will start to lose interest.

Jane has recently split up from her boyfriend, and is deeply upset. She won't stop crying about it to her best friend Amy, and Amy is there for her and listens to her and understands how she must be feeling. Amy has AS but still knows how to be there for Jane, and she totally understands how Jane feels. After a few months, Jane is still crying about it to Amy and doesn't seem to be getting over it. Amy is now getting a bit fed up with hearing the same thing over and over for months, and is now telling her to try to talk about something else and try to forget about her ex. Jane yells at Amy, bringing up how she lacks empathy.

So in conclusion to that, an NT shows lots of empathy but gets bored after 5 months is ok and doesn't get accused of lacking empathy. An Aspie shows a lot of empathy but gets bored after 5 months, and the Aspie is accused of lacking empathy.

Oddly enough I was discussing this subject with some friends at a social group last night. As other posters have said, the question of people with AS lacking empathy is a myth. It has always seemed to me that Aspiens experience empathy on a far more profound level than NTs, but don't express it outwardly in what is regarded as a 'normal' way - i.e. we 'deface' the existing currency. In fact people with Asperger's often feel empathy to such a degree that it becomes overwhelming, and thus inexpressible. Whereas a lot of the so-called empathy shown by neurotypicals is no more than an empty social convention.