Why are the Abused thrown away with the Abuser ?

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I've seen this and experienced this in countless situations in my life.
Where someone who is simply minding their own business is attacked in some way by an abuser,
to such a degree that the abuser makes it impossible for the abused to refrain from "reacting".
Especially reacting negatively.

This sets the Abused into a cycle of negative defense reaction in response to attacks/bullying.
Through no fault of the abuser, he/she is just trying to "solve" the situational violence to their best ability.
But in the process of defending yourself, YOU become the bad-guy, especially if and when people see you reacting, even though it's not at all your fault.

In spiritual circles they talk about the Abused as being almost as bad as the ABUSER !
Which is completely baffling to me.

When people see people who are down on their luck , or have been beaten up, or something bad happened to them, or they had a hard life and now are negative people.... society just labels the Abused as ABUSERS , then blithely go on with their hegemonic day.

Isn't this wrong ?

I have a feeling most of you will disagree with me ( hmm, I wonder why).
Maybe more a reaction to me than the actual issue, but consider it none the less.

Why do people and/or society throw the baby out with the bathwater ?
Why do they clump the Abused into the same group as the ABUSER ?

I guess that's the power of Evil.
You only have to be touched by evil to then turn to evil.
Violence begets violence, the endless cycle of turmoil perhaps.
And for those of you who don't believe in evil,
if you live long enough and pay attention, you'll see quite clearly that evil exists.
(non-corporeally of course, we're not talking the movie: The fifth Element, here)

So to close this up,

Do you believe society is correct in treating the Abused and the Abuser as the same ? (give or take)

What are your thoughts on this.

It's never made sense and bullying is not taken seriously as child abuse is. But yet women have gone to prison for killing their abusive husbands and there have been moms that have attempted to kill their children who were abusive and other parents trying to send their kids back to their home country or leaving them at social services and being charged with child abandonment because their kid was abusive. Parental abuse is also not taken seriously and it's always blamed on the parents. There are no laws to protect families from abusive kids so the kid can be abusive all they want. They have all that power just like a bully has all that power because they can continue getting you into trouble and continue getting away with it. Kids have also gotten in trouble with the law for killing their abusive parent/guardian.

I think in this case, they should all be let off because they were at their wits end and desperate and feared for their life and had no way out. But then if we pass this law, anyone can just kill their kids and claim abuse or kill their partners and claim abuse. You would have to prove there was abuse but then again you can have anyone say you were abused and have your own children say you were abused and have anyone beat you up or beat yourself up and take pictures of your injuries and claim that was left by your child or partner. It's easy for women to claim abuse and bam the guy goes in the slammer or doesn't get full custody of the kids because women are easily believed. But if a man is abused by his wife or girlfriend, no one takes it seriously.


I say self defense is different than being abusive because if someone tries to mug you, fight them off but once they run off, do not chase after them unless they have your item. Let them run off. If someone is beating you, fight them off and once the are not abusing you, do not stoop down to their level and abuse them back or else you are just as bad as they are. Some people do abuse each other and I think they are both dysfunctional. Two wrongs do not make it a right.


It's a sick world out there.

On paper it's all simple, cut-and-dry.
But in the real world, when you're abused (and you're not doing anything wrong), especially for ASD people (or ND, neurodiverse) it's hard to stop reacting, because once attacked, you keep perceiving a threat. And this perception and reaction isn't something you can control. All of this is mostly controlled by the subconscious and the spine, which of course as you know are unconscious forces, mechanisms, that takes care of things automatically.

Scientists and others often compare the conscious-unconscious (or subconscious) complex to an iceberg.
The conscious part of your mind is only the 10% part that's sticking out of the water, and visible by ship.
The remaining 90% is below water, and is invisible.

You can't control the subconscious. It controls you.
Your subconscious is WAY more massive than the conscious part of your mind and awareness.
And holds about 1000 times the force than the conscious mind does.

Maybe in a million years our species will evolve to the point where our brains / awareness will be 90% conscious and only 10% unconscious. Maybe that's asking too much. Since the subconscious (or unconscious) is there because it needs to run things. So maybe only something like 50/50 is possible. Who really knows ? :>

My point being, once set in motion, it's not your fault, all your negative reactions, because mostly you can't control them. You can control them if you strap yourself down, buckle down, become a monk, or some other extreme measure, but most people don't have that in them, and can't be expected to take on such a burden, especially when it's NOT their fault. It's not their fault the Abuser chose them, to lay their hand of evil upon them, and turn that innocent person into a fellow demon. Which is how it kind of works, in my opinion.

Yes, there are people who "take the higher road" when abused,
but I'll bet you it's the vast minority, and they're very lucky.
Have strong support groups, friends, families, etc.
So the evil they had to endure didn't leave such a deep imprint on them.

I think this issue I raised here, in my thread, is the key issue keeping mankind down at this point in evolution.
Or maybe this type of thing can never be solved. I don't know. I really think it can be solved though, and not through more violence, cops, govt agencies, political groups, civil rights advocacy groups, and all the rest of the complete mess that is out there.

This issue is the ultimate existential choke point of our species.

And we must somehow find a way to grow out of it or something.

I say if a kid is so violent because they were abused, they need to be locked away and be given treatment to over come the trauma so they won't be abusive. I recently saw a video on youtube about a 13 year old boy facing a life sentence for killing his 2 year old step brother and he was also an abused child so abuse is all he has been exposed to and he learned that is how things are handled. When you get upset and stuff, you abuse. He was also sexually abused too. I don't know the aftermath of this boy because I didn't look him up but Beth Thomas was an abused child so she had no conscious and no empathy so she hurt her brother and animals and always wanted her hurt her adoptive parents but she was sent away to some treatment home and she overcame her RAD. Now she lives a fine life and is a fine person now and she works as a nurse. They also made a movie based on her called Child or Rage. It's on youtube.

But put it this way, should we let these people harm other people just because they feel threatened? What about our safety? What if you were just minding your own business and you do something harmless and you get attacked all of a sudden because you had triggered something in them unintentionally?

Yeah, for example a bully's strategy is often to provoke a reaction from the victim and then blame the victim.

But when touched by evil as you call it, to become evil isn't necessary. If people want to throw s**t, they have to have that s**t in them to begin with. That s**t is in them, not in you. They dig the insults from their own minds, not from yours. The insults are about them and reflect them, not you.

When you really think about 'hate', it rather comes down to one thing - love - and the lack of it. People who feel hurt by another person - their need to be loved is unanswered - answer with hate. People who feel almost a universal lack of love, start to hate and have their revenge on whole world. A narcissist is living the initial lack of love in his or her desperate attempt to replace it with something else like power. Then we have the evil of psychopaths, sexual predators and such.

I get a lot of s**t, s**t you wouldn't even belive, but it rarely touches me anymore. Thus I have no need to really pay attention to it or answer back. But I do of course bring up crime and such. I may view the people e.g. bullying very weak, but I have no need to tell that to their face. I know they are insecure and in desperate need of love, so why to hurt them more. Their way of living must be a cross to bear enough, because people like that don't seem happy at all and almost seem to miss all the good in life. Something is always bothering them, they moan and are in constant battle with the world and other people. They are missing all the good, because to see it, you have to have it in you.

As I like to say, true sword is the one you don't use. No matter knowing how powerfull your sword could be when used, true power is to walk around without using it. The power is in you, not in your sword. This sword you could interpret in many ways. It's our destructive abilities, it's the need to have power over another being, it's the need to have money, fame, name and other forms of outer power. They are all outside you, just like the sword.

People think that if they stop fighting, they will lose the battle, but if you aren't even fighting, you can't lose, no matter how others or your life treats you.

May the force be within you!

Thank you ,
VisInsita

And may the Force be with you as well :>

I'm quoting this from the invalidation thread because I think it is relevant.

Olympiadis,

I know your not going to like this but,

Your quote doubles back and blames the victim. Weak identity ? lol . All most ppl want is for the malice to stop. Nothing to do with shrink babble sophistry.

And why do to extremes ? Murder ?
I never mentioned nor implied murder.
Why not bring up Hannibal Lector while you're at it.

At least executions ate merciful.
Torture is Evil.

Continuing malice is psychological torture, and I assure you, its worse than death.

Olympiadis,

I know your not going to like this but,

Your quote doubles back and blames the victim. Weak identity ? lol . All most ppl want is for the malice to stop. Nothing to do with shrink babble sophistry.

And why do to extremes ? Murder ?
I never mentioned nor implied murder.
Why not bring up Hannibal Lector while you're at it.

At least executions ate merciful.
Torture is Evil.

Continuing malice is psychological torture, and I assure you, its worse than death.

I've seen the same thing and have had the same thoughts. I think part of it is the "just-world" fallacy: that the world is fair and so if someone is defending themselves they're actually the attacker, because it's impossible that someone attacked them first place. If some black guy is getting choked to death by the police then he must have done something to deserve it.

And, sometimes, I think ego can destroy people's ability to think rationally.

I.e. One time my mother's car broke down and caught fire. It started with smoke pouring out from under the hood. There was an eyewitness (in addition to me) who said the fire was started by the driver throwing a cigarette out the window which went in the back window. My mother has never smoked, the fire started under the hood, the windows were up, and the car burned from front to back. Everything contradicted her account, but she was sure. Luckily, the insurance company didn't choose to believe her. That's why eyewitness testimony is unreliable -- people say they saw things they didn't see.

I can't help but think her method of reasoning was to think of all possibilities and then rank them in terms of how superior to the person in the scenario she would be. Thus, the stupidest possible actions of the driver must be the truth, because that is maximizes her superiority. (I think that drives a lot of the popularity of reality TV, intervention, and "nightmare kitchen" shows.)

Humanity is fundamentally unscientific. People don't typically observe the world and then form hypotheses. Instead, they start with a belief and then cherry pick facts to support it.

I used to get in trouble too by my bullies. But when I was real little, like when I was 8 and 9, we would both get in trouble and the teacher wouldn't care who started it. Then when I was older, it was only me in trouble. Just as long as you don't touch your victim, they will be in trouble if they get provoked and they lay a hand on you. I would get egged to do things and pressured and then I would be the one in trouble, not them.