Autism With Unusual Symptoms

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I apologize in advance if this is less than coherent but finding a time when I'm fully coherent is tricky which is part of the problem.

So apparently I have autism spectrum disorder (old DSM-IV diagnosis pegs me as an aspie). However, my symptoms are decidedly unusual so I feel even more out of place among fellow aspies than among neurotypicals.

I feel as though I have a battery to supply energy which is slowly trickle-charged throughout the day and night (so I feel at my most energetic shortly after waking up; that's 8 hours of charge I couldn't spend while asleep). Activities take energy out of the battery; some cost more than others and when the battery is drained I can only do "free" activities (that cost zero energy) until the battery recharges.

As seems to be fairly similar with the "typical" autism/aspie experience, new activities have a much higher energy cost while "routine" activities cost less (or even nothing). Regardless of circumstances, task-switching always costs energy; even switching abruptly from a free routine task to another free routine task requires spending energy unless done at a natural conclusion of the first task. Meta-activities take large amounts of energy as well; for example, planning something often takes more energy than doing it.

By and large the energy cost of a task correlates with how much attention it requires. Or in other words, paying attention is exhausting, regardless of whether the attention is being paid to external tasks or internal planning.

However, there's one glaring exception that seems to set me apart from nearly every other autistic person I've spoken with and that is this: The more social an activity is, the less energy it costs. Conversations are effectively free. Planning with another person is much easier than planning on my own. I've even made a point of transforming solitary activities into social activities just to get a discount on their energy cost.

If my battery is all but drained, even social activities become difficult (since merely paying attention rather than zoning out always carries a minimal cost no matter what) but they're usually the last thing to go.

In fact, if you asked me to describe my condition, I'd say social issues are the one thing that wouldn't come up. My battery has very limited capacity and fills very slowly, so most essential aspects of life are impossible. I can't work. I can't do fun things. I can't cook (most of the time). I can't do anything that requires even a minimal amount of planning. But social gatherings? Parties? Sure, if I have enough energy to get to them I'd love to!

I'm pretty sure that what I described is called executive functioning (or rather the lack thereof) but I'm not sure; when I tried to get treatment for "executive functioning disorder" they referred me to cognitive behavioral therapy which failed utterly because it was based on the assumption that I could think and plan my way out of my difficulties when the difficulty is that I can't think or plan anything. While in CBT, I was actually less productive because the limited energy I'd normally spend on getting a few things done was instead spent on planning how to do everything; by the time the plans were drawn up, I had no energy left to actually do any of them.

Thing is, that this perpetual low battery (or executive functioning deficit or whatever it's called) is probably about 95% of my primary symptoms. I also have sensory issues, but only when my battery is almost drained; if I have any energy to spare, it's easy to boost my tolerance to the point where I don't notice sensory issues but if I'm all out then I get bothered easily. I also have anxiety, but that started before the autism symptoms so I'm not sure that's connected. It's only relatively recently that the two have started to intertwine; these days surprises and changes to routine can cause horrible anxiety but until relatively recently the anxiety was completely uncorrelated and limited to random panic attacks or flare-ups that I managed on their own.

Or maybe I buried the lede? Technically I had classic autism/aspie symptoms as a child, but I grew out of them upon reaching adulthood. As an adult, I was effectively neurotypical as far as anyone could tell (even I didn't know about the Asperger's diagnosis from way back). I later developed the anxiety problem but it tended to be fairly manageable.

Then, I suddenly started to have this low energy problem. Well, not "suddenly" as such; it came on rather slowly so it was about a year from when I first started to notice a clear problem to my current condition where I can barely do anything at all. Several doctors were baffled; I was first diagnosed with depression but antidepressants didn't work and then with several other conditions ranging from "bipolar disorder" to "ADHD" to "just faking it to get attention" according to a quack doctor I didn't see for very long. Ultimately, one doctor actually thought to ask me about my childhood (it was troubled) and that's when we dug up the old Asperger's diagnosis and they concluded that my symptoms were probably the result of autism which had apparently gone into remission at the start of adulthood only to come back with a vengeance years later.

In retrospect, I realize I probably had some autism symptoms throughout so it wasn't a perfect remission but I clearly passed for neurotypical to everyone including myself so I'm not too concerned about the details. My father is autistic but he managed to pass for neurotypical his whole adult life so why can't I do the same?

So. Does anyone have the slightest clue how to handle my problem of low mental energy (or low attention span bandwidth cap or whatever you want to call it)? Does anyone have a similar problem? Does it sound like the autism diagnosis was mistaken and I actually have some other problem? My research into treatment options has come up mostly empty; the closest I found is a highly experimental thing called "cognitive remediation," has anyone heard of/used it?

I don't feel like I'm on the wrong planet. I feel like someone poured water into my brain and shorted out half the circuits.

If you never had social issues or repetitive behaviors and sensory sensitivities you most likely are not autistic. If you had social issues, repetative behavoirs, and sensory issues but they seem to be gone you might have never been autistic or you are autistic learned and to cope or mask so well you can do it without thinking but it has still exhausted you.

I would look back at event or events prior to the onset of low energy and see if anything has triggered this.

Sounds like you are a low-energy person, especially when there is too much going on in your life. Now, some of that is probably the energy that goes into passing as neurotypical (even if you don't think it takes any). Battery-draining is not a cardinal symptom of autism, but can happen for anyone.

My suggestion is not to find a particular therapy, but just build "battery re-charging" into your day. You can take micronaps of 10 to 45 minutes, do some relaxation/meditation techniques, and be sure you are getting good diet, exercise and sleep. You might have to make a conscious decision to improve your health behaviors. Don't smoke, don't drink alcohol, don't use any recreational drugs.

If all that is in place and you still have these issues, get a general physical exam from your doctor and be sure to mention the fatigue.

https://sleepfoundation.org/how-sleep-w ... eally-need
They have chart that suggests as much as 10 hours a day may be appropriate for some adults.

The most obvious thing to look at is too much stuff packed in a day. People are so busy these days.

Have you had a complete physical exam lately? I have one once a year.

The social energy aspect may mean that you are an extravert, in addition to being autistic.

I had social issues as a child but largely grew out of them by adulthood. A few remnants of them persist, but not enough to prevent me from easily passing as neurotypical. (Although a person who knew in advance that I was autistic and was specifically trained in observing autism symptoms apparently picked up on them effortlessly.)

I do have sensory issues, but they're only a problem when the battery is nearly empty; if I have the energy to function, I have the energy to simply tolerate them.

As for repetitive behaviors, if you're referring to stimming, yes I do that but it's almost completely unconscious a lot of the time so I don't generally notice I'm doing it. If you mean a need to have routines or rituals, that's sort of also true— breaking a routine costs more energy, and these days a lot of my anxiety symptoms are associated with something being a little different or a little out of place. However, that's relatively recent; before that, the last time breaking a routine caused me distress was early childhood. It's not completely crippling - depending on how much energy I have, I might be able to simply ignore the anxiety - but it's still annoying.

The prospect that this is "autistic burnout" has already occurred to me but it seems odd that it should be so persistent; for years now, I've been so thoroughly disabled that I've never really needed to mask any symptoms around anyone so why should I still be burned out?



The problem (which I should have been clearer about) is that most of my day is battery re-charging time. Even budgeting the energy carefully, I only have enough to cover the minimum necessities of physical survival (food, sleep, other biological needs) with a little extra for niceties like showering and doing laundry (and even that one is a stretch that requires trickery and a little luck).

I also should have made it more clear that the "energy" I'm low on isn't physical energy that can be managed with diet and sleep. It's more like attention— I have a limited capacity to pay attention and focus on things. That's not a perfect explanation, but it's probably closer than just saying "energy" because there are days in which I go on five-mile hikes because I don't have the energy to write an email— though exerting, the hike is largely mindless and therefore easy on the battery while writing an email takes focus and it also takes processing power to think through what I want to say and how to say it and so drains the battery quickly.

If there's anything I can do to recharge the battery, I haven't discovered it. The battery sort of trickle-charges slowly on its own and while being hungry and tired can slow the charging rate I have yet to find any way to expedite it.

I don't use any recreational drugs (including tobacco and alcohol), and my annual physical exam always reports that I'm in perfect health.



I sleep 8 hours on average and I don't think I'm physically capable of more than that; after 8 hours I wake up feeling rested and perfectly energetic in a physical sense. I usually also have a full attention battery, but that energy is used up within an hour.

The idea that I have too much stuff packed into a day is impossible; my days are empty. The vast bulk of the day, I'm limited to energetically "free" activities as I slowly wait for the battery to charge up enough to write an email or take a shower or eat a meal or do something technically productive.

My last physical exam was less than a year ago; my next one is already scheduled. They always say I'm healthy.



I'm not so sure about that. Given the amount and type of social contact I desire, I'm definitely an introvert by neurotypical standards, despite being highly sociable by autistic standards.

I'm not sure why social activities are unusually easy on the battery, but I've learned to use it as a workaround for things that are otherwise difficult.

It isn't surprising that emails cause you a lot of problems--though pinning down exactly what is rather hard to do over the Internet.

Ideally, you might have a therapist study you to figure out why things are hard. Sometimes you can read about what other people have discovered and realize that it also applies to you.

Some examples--bad lighting--usually too bright, but the color spectrum can also be an issue.
Anything that generates noise--though I suppose that too quiet could also be issue. My office clock is really quiet.
Badly designed software interfaces and computers that are just too slow.
Shopping is hard for many--they can't deal with the crowds.

Decision making is a big one--a smart thing to do is to reduce the number of decisions you need to make every day.

It is possible that you may have something that causes many of the same traits as Autism but might not be Autism. There are other conditions that have similar traits but work a little differently. Of course, I can't know for sure but that could be a possibility. Or like another person said, you could be an extroverted Aspie. That is also very possible. Extroverted Aspies do exist. I am tempted to make an M&M Santa joke but I will restrain myself.

Burnout can be pretty persistent. Burnout is not only caused by masking but accumulation of stress and bieng burnt is quite stressful.

You might need to go to an adult autism specialist if you can find and afford one to figure this out. Everybody has a right to a second opinion and getting clarification can ease stress and possibly lead to better treatments.

Emails are just one example of something that's very hard to do. Other examples include research, drawing, mental arithmetic, writing these posts, switching tasks, cooking, following complex philosophical arguments, and following anything written in unusual or esoteric language.

The problem persists across a wide range of environmental factors, so I doubt any of them have anything to do with it. The one common thread is that anything which requires (certain kinds of) mental processing is very difficult because those forms of processing are difficult or exhausting.

Lighting, color, and noise are usually nonissues; if I have enough energy to work on a complex task at all, I generally have enough to boost my sensory tolerances to maximum and in any case when sensory issues bother me they aren't exactly subtle about it; I'll notice.

Shopping is hard but not because of the crowds. The trouble is that remembering what I'm shopping for takes energy to process (unless I made a list, which takes energy to process and use) and locating the specific items to buy takes energy to process even when I know what they are; crowds can exacerbate the problem only to the extent that they slow me down, requiring me to expend the processing energy over a longer timeframe.

Decision making is generally easy, at least with respect to processing energy.

I've had plenty of people evaluate me to find out what and why things are difficult but there's nothing definitive yet. I've never found anyone with a similar problem to read about, but I signed up here in the hopes that I might.



One person I saw suggested I have ADHD, which seems at least somewhat accurate given that most of my problems have to do with attention and processing. However, autism seems to revolve heavily around social difficulties I don't have, ADHD seems to revolve heavily around trouble with non-preferred tasks, which I don't have. I've also heard that ADHD often causes a strong propensity to boredom, while I'm heavily resistant to boredom (which is a single positive side effect to the high cost of attention).



I don't suppose you're aware of any remedies for burnout? It's worth a shot.

I've seen no shortage of adult autism specialists (or at least self-proclaimed adult autism specialists) but none of them have been particularly helpful.

Most people actually behave the way you do--everyone gets tired when stressed by a lot of difficult mental tasks. The only difference is that you don't consider the stressful mental tasks to be difficult. Normal people just say that math or computer stuff is hard, and don't get stressed out by that fact.

The way to deal with stressful mental tasks is to simplify and eliminate the ones you don't need to do. The Internet is likely to be stressful--you might limit your activity and spend more of you day doing hobbies that aren't so stressful. Doing the wash can be hard if you sort out your clothes--perhaps you could simplify matters so that you just need to dump everything into the washer--don't wear anything that bleeds color.

"Autistic burnout" is not recognized much outside of Autistic spaces so little or no research has been done on treatments. It is just us muddling around trying help ourselves and each other. My case is different then yours in that I was clueless about bieng autistic never mind bieng burnt out. So just finding a correct explanation and that these issues were not a matter off me bieng a weak person was very helpful.

Perhaps I'm not communicating clearly?

I'm not "stressed" by difficult mental tasks. I am unable to do a great many tasks ranging from simple to difficult. I am also able to do some tasks ranging from simple to difficult. Math is not hard— prior to the onset of my disability, I was incredibly good at it. Computer stuff is not hard— prior to the onset of my current symptoms I was at least generally proficient. This is not "stress" at "difficult" tasks, it is a crippling disability which I didn't always have and which I'd very much like to return to not having.

Simplifying and eliminating tasks is impossible; I've cut everything down to the bare minimum. I have no job. I moved back in with my parents. I live on pre-made foods so I don't have to cook. Even showering is cut back to maybe twice a week. What more is there to "simplify and eliminate?"

Asking me to limit internet time and pursue hobbies is particularly cruel— I've abandoned all of my hobbies because I don't have the attention/energy/whatever to do any of them. While the internet may be "stressful," that's a non-issue since stress isn't an issue; the issue is attention/energy/spoons/whatever, and since internet browsing is "free" I spend lots of time doing it for lack of any other option.

And no, I don't sort my clothes. I dump everything into the washer and hit start. Even that drains the battery to the point where getting it done is an all-day affair on a good day (unless I can get an energy discount by getting someone else to do their laundry at the same time, thus making it a "social" activity).



Oh well.

I've been a wreck for a couple years now, so the idea that this is anything other than a clear disability is a little hard to believe. I didn't get the autism diagnosis until relatively recently, but I'd been seeking treatment long before that.

It sounds like you have some sort of degenerative cognitive disease.

Neurological diseases like ALS actually run a continuum like autism and are very difficult to pin down, even with genetic testing and nerve conduction studies. What usually happens is they get diagnosed with MS, the most common type, and eventually figure out the diagnosis is wrong, and may or may not get it properly diagnosed by a specialist in that particular disorder. Sometimes, even with genetic testing, there can still be doubts as to exactly what someone has--though they might know that a particular gene marker is involved.

Neurological disease are commonly associated with physical issues, Stephen Hawking is an example of someone with ALS but appears to have no cognitive issues. But, they can affect the ability to think as well.

Last edited by BTDT on 08 Nov 2016, 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

As ASpartofme said, one of the problems with Autistic Burnout is that it is not talked about outside of Autistic circles. There is a reason for that. I won't get into that part because it's a big subject. But one of the problems is that Autistic Burnout is not clearly defined as a term. We have not yet made an actual definition to what it actually is. When some people talk about it they are referring to what happens in a normal regular burnout where you are just tired or exhausted by things like work or school or stuff like that. In another thread, someone compared it to an Autistic version of a midlife crisis. We need to define actual terms to describe each of these issues when it comes to Autism because when one person talks about Autistic Burnout being like a midlife crisis, that is not even close to what I am talking about when I talk about the burnouts I went through. The experience I had most recently would have resulted in my death if I had not found out what was happening. This is much more severe than what many people think of when they describe what they are describing.

I think it is very important to have terms that are very specific to describe the different levels of exhaustion or burnout that we are experiencing. In my last big burnout, every thing about life itself was overpowering to me. I could not even manage to figure out how to put food in my mouth and eat it. When I sat on the toilet my body had lost the ability to understand what to do in order to actually have a poo. This is very serious. This is beyond just exhaustion, this is a level of burnout where your physical body is no longer able to understand how to do the most basic primal functions. When you experience this level of burnout you could very easily go over the edge and end up dying or permanently damaged.

So I think the first thing we have to do is actually come up with a set of terms with very specific definitions so that when someone asks about burnout we know exactly what we are talking about.

Last edited by skibum on 08 Nov 2016, 4:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Oh gosh, let's pray it's not ALS. I lost two dear loved ones to that, one this year and one three years ago. It's brutal. We will pray that you don't have that.