NVLD or ASD?

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I was diagnosed with autism when I was 5, but I think NVLD may be a better fit. I don't have many sensory issues for the most part, just with tags on shirts and animals putting their paws on me, but some NTs are bothered by these too and I have a higher than average pain tolerance.

My main autism-related difficulties are reading facial expressions and difficulty making friends. I also have meltdowns related to anxiety and will stim as a coping mechanism for this.

My visual-spatial skills are very weak, but different than the typical NVLDer may have. For example, I tend to perceive objects are closer to me than they actually are, rather than further away. According to my mom, I sometimes stood a little TOO FAR from people as child, rather than too close. I have poor math skills, but I'm above average in solving word problems. I especially have trouble with geometry.

My verbal skills are above average (except for spelling), and my visual-spatial skills are below average. I don't know the numbers, but my verbal IQ is above average whereas my performance IQ is below average. I've never been very good at drawing or map-reading and get lost a lot.

My fine motor skills are terrible, but my gross motor skills are average. I know autistic people can have difficulties with motor skills as well, but they usually don't have difficulties with visual-spatial skills.

Is it possible that I have NVLD rather than autism and can you have both?

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I'm female and I've heard that females are more likely to have NVLD than ASD.

Yes, you can have both. I have NVLD and share all the symptoms you do, except the poor spelling; mine is in the "very superior" range. NVLD is the worst because it's virtually unrecognized, and my struggles in school don't reflect my intelligence in certain areas, my potential, or the amount of effort I put it like they do for many NTs. But people don't realize that and judge whether you're worthy of things by your GPA alone.

In my case it's, is it autism or dyspraxia? Like which one is more dominant? But at the same time, does it really matter? I'm still just as messed up either way.

I go through periods of doubt, ricocheting between ADD, ASD and NVLD. I don't feel I really understand what separates one from the other, though. What I do have is a sense of direction, which you're not supposed to have if you've got NVLD. In a way, ASD feels more logical because it covers more traits. Or is that wrong?

I wonder how many times I'll change my mind before I have the chance to see a psychologist?

I read that NVLD is not recognized by many professionals so kids with it will be diagnosed as having an ASD or ADHD or whatever closest that fits. But I read that 80% of AS individuals also have NVLD so that would mean their AS diagnoses is correct but they had more going on. But I can't imagine if NVLD could be more explained so the AS individual would still be struggling because they wouldn't be getting all the help they need so the person with AS may feel their diagnoses isn't correct or they think they have more going on. That was the case with my ADD for my mother about me.

What makes me rule out NVLD for me is I have a good sense of direction and people with NVLD have troubles with that. I can watch something to learn how to do it. Hence the name non verbal learning disability. They just have troubles with visual things.

In my case it's is it OCD or autism or anxiety or ADD.

Anxiety and meltdowns are not part of NVLD, as far as I know. Ditto with the hand flapping. Also, being of an age where you can obviously write pretty well, but you don't know your numbers is something that you wouldn't be able to attribute to NVLD. They can have problems with math, but these are because of visuals. They don't tend to present as someone who simply hasn't been able to memorize a number sequence. You could have both anxiety and NVLD.

But before you decide if you need a new diagnosis, you might want to check out the blogs and information about autistic women. They present differently than males. For example, women on the spectrum don't report the same fondness for numbers as men. So if you only know about the experiences of males on the spectrum, you are likely to not feel like you have much in common with them. But you might feel like you have more in common with women.

Pretty sure I have both.

I started showing unusual signs as a toddler, (staring a lot, going into corners alone and playing with string), until someone at my preschool told my mother that I should probably get tested.

My parents took me to all kinds of doctors, and I had many tests done on me, until finally, I came out with NVLD. Once my preschool found out, they wanted to put me in another school that would accommodate me better, but my mother didn't want that, so I was homeschooled until first grade.

I had pretty chicken scratch handwriting, and my Math skills were never up to par with my other classmates, (I was put in Special Ed. Math classes, most of the time).

My elementary school then labeled me with Aspergers after some testing I did, and two-years back, I was properly diagnosed for it by a professional.

That's just my story, at least.

It is possible to have ASD with NVLD. I am from Poland and I have diagnoses of Asperger's syndrome, a pervasive developmental disorder (since nearly eight years), obsessive-compulsive disorder and schizotypal disorder.

I have an obsession about NVLD. I suppose that in fact I can have not Asperger's nor schizotypal disorder, but just NVLD with OCD and maybe personality disorder(s). Asperger's and schizotypal disorders are serious diagnoses - first is a pervasive developmental disorder (such as childhood autism), second is between schizophrenia (F20) and persistent delusional disorder (F22) in ICD-10.

My verbal IQ (126) was quite significantly higher than my performance IQ (104). I had very high result in Arithmetic (18/19), despite my suspicion of NVLD in my case. In Information I had 17, in Similarities 13, in Comprehension 13, in Vocabulary 13, in Digits Span 11. In Performance part I had 14/19 on Black Design, 13/19 on Coding, 9 on Object Assembly, 9 on Picture Completion, 8 on Picture Arrangement. My results in Arithmetic, Block Design and Coding were not weak. High Arithmetic and Block Design are typically not traits of NVLD...

I have pretty good handwriting and it was rather good even when I was about 7. I learned how to ride a bike before my sixth birtday (but learning how to tie a shoe was harder for me, I was also very weak in volleyball). I have not very good visual thinking, although I like maps and liked video games really much.

Greetings. NVLD could be a possibility. A study has said that about 80% of people with AS have NVLD too. Sadly though, unless you go to someone familiar with learning disabilities in general, many people with AS aren't diagnosed with it. It's not in the DSM-V nor ICD-10. It's recognized by learning disability specialist or people familiar with all types of LDs.

Lucky, I went to see someone for a psychoeducational assessment, which mainly looks for learning disabilities, ADHD, stuff that impairs learning. I read her notes and saw that NVLD as a question mark for me before testing, but was not diagnosed with it. I don't fit the criteria. Though I score higher in verbal IQ than non-verbal IQ, it's only a difference of 10th percentile. They are both in average range (65th and 55th respectfully). But I'm higher in VIQ because that category included general knowledge, and I know a lot. And I didn't do good in one thing in non-verbal that I got a 25th percentile. I am also good at math and am a visual learner. I do have fine motor skills problems, along with visual memory problems though.

So I don't have NVLD because of this. Plus, out of writing, reading, and math, my worst one was reading and best one was math. I was still average in reading, but it varied from 84th percentile and 47th percentile. Since I have a better verbal memory than visual, I remember better by verbal, but learn better seeing. So it's better if I have both types of media.

For you, when you say NVLD isn't common thinking things are close, I feel this makes sense though when I read this as a symptom for NVLD:

https://ldaamerica.org/types-of-learning-disabilities/non-verbal-learning-disabilities/

It could go for both ways.

Also, reading comprehension and problems with math word problems are difficult for many people with NVLD, which you said you were good with word problems.

Here is another link to info about NVLD:

https://www.understood.org/en/learning-attention-issues/child-learning-disabilities/nonverbal-learning-disabilities/understanding-nonverbal-learning-disabilities

None of us can diagnose you, but normally, the diagnosis of NVLD costs thousands because you need to find someone to do a psychoeducational assessment and the test they do costs hundreds for them, so they charge thousands. I'm not sure how it runs wherever you are, but how it runs here, it's like this. So I would think about looking into it a lot and see if it's worth it.

I am rather not visual learner because my visual thinking generally is rather poor. My VIQ was 22 points (almost 1,5 standard deviation) higher than PIQ on Weschler test. Overall IQ was 117. I suppose that in fact I have not Asperger's, but "just NVLD" despite good result in Arithmetic (about 99,6 percentile?), Block Design (about 85th percentile?), Coding (about 80th percentile?). I had good Comprehension (13/19) and people with autism tend to score poor on Comprehension.

Wow, ok... starting off that I have degrees in this field and NVLD and ADHD myself... So when you are looking at discrepancies between Verbal IQ and Performance IQ you are looking for difference of one or more standard deviation. For example, me, I have a verbal IQ of 130+ and a performance IQ of 85... Big difference... NVLD have trouble with social skills, yes, but there are fundamental differences between this and ASD. It is not a lack of understanding of nonverbal communication rather than a lack of being able to see and quickly integrate the information provided in a non-verbal format. NVLD does not relate to writing specifically or math. It is generally related to visio-spatial and perceptual skills which can relate to math and writing. The issues with visio spatial is actually why NVLD students have difficulty discerning pitch in speech. We use the same are of the brain to interpret position in space and pitch or prosody. For me it seriously took me 2 weeks to not get lost getting from my on campus apartment to my lab... yup, sad... I must use maps and have 0 visual memory skills. Another key characteristic difference is that with NVLD all the core social skills you would observe in very young children are intact. So we are talking about eye contact, joint attention, etc... There may or may not be deficits in executive functioning which bleeds over into theory of mind, understanding others think differently. When testing theory of mind skills NVLD will generally test normal, regardless of comorbid ADHD or other... In real life situations though the balancing act of reading non-verbal social cues, intonation, prosody, etc... and trying to keep up with your own thoughts make NVLD, especially with co-morbid ADHD like myself, jump to talk and thus not provide intro phrases or cues. This isn't a lack of theory of mind skills but a performance deficit. This means NVLD have these skills but have more trouble using them in real life situations. There are also other differences: no stimming even with anxiety symptoms, don't have the same lack of cognitive flexibility (generally routines must be forced and are a coping or compensatory mechanism rather than something that is enjoyed), globalized creativity (in early childhood normal development of play skills), etc.. Also it is very common with high functioning ASD/Aspergers to have higher verbal IQ as compared to non-verbal IQ. We don't use IQ to diagnose ASD bc this is not an accurate predictor. As of now ASD is not considered to be comorbid with NVLD bc, as this discussion points out, the symptoms appear to be very similar. NVLD can only be diagnosed if there are no other neurological disorders that could explain symptoms, therefore if you have ASD your symptoms would be explained by that and not NVLD. While ADHDer tend to have "sensory issues," this again is qualitatively differnt. You are talking about being overwhelmed by attention points rather than sensory input itself. So for me if i am in a mall or a cafeteria I hear everyone's voices the same and the conversation 10 feet away is as clear as the one next to me. Keeping my attention focused so I don't just go to the next shiny is exhausting thus I say I am overstimulated. This is very different than the actual auditory, visual, or tactile stimulation overwhelming me. For me it is not the actual modality but the quantitative amount of stimulation. At the same time I have seen many ASDers enjoy meditation bc they can get away from sensory stimuli... I know meditation and mindfulness is good for me but as an ADHDer its torture, literally!! If you have been diagnosed using the ADOS this is an excellent tool to weed apart ASD and NVLD.

Another clarification the chances of having very early onset schizophrenia or related schizo-personality disorder, e.g. younger than 14, with or without a traumatic experience is minuscule. Also we know rates of schizophrenia, OCD, and anxiety are higher in people with ASD/Aspergers. So if your wondering if you had schizo... at 6 its probably ASD. Untreated schizo... has serious cognitive implications in that we nearly always see significant cognitive decline associated with early onset schizophrenia including significant asymptomatic (not related to the schizophrenia) memory issues, issues with simple arithmetic, self-help skills, etc... If you haven't seen a cognitive and adaptive decline your probably don't have early onset schizophrenia. Even with treatment, anti-psychotics, the cognitive outcomes of early onset are pretty dismal. Hope this helps...