Trust - is there anyone else out there like me?

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SadPhD
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13 Dec 2018, 2:23 pm

I'm struggling with a trust issue. A good friend of mine loves to travel.

I hate travel. I don't understand how anyone can like it.

But I wish she would at least tell me the truth when she's going places. She says "I need you to trust me when I say that I will come back."

I say "You can't promise that. And I can't trust that."

Why? Because she's promising something she can't guarantee delivery of - that she'll be safe and come back without being hurt. She can't control the weather, the people in the places she's going, or whether her plane's going to crash. So when she says she'll be back, she's either lying or ignoring the reality of the situation, and either way, it offends me and makes it really hard to trust.

If she would say "I fully intend to come back," I could trust that. And I would trust that.

But she says I'm splitting hairs, and that I should just know that's what she means. And I can't. And she's offended and thinks I don't trust her, when nothing could be further from the truth - I do trust HER. I don't trust THE WORLD.

Anyone else have this kind of issue with trust?


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13 Dec 2018, 2:29 pm

This is a difference between how normal people think and what is often called the black/white thinking associated with autism. In her mind she is telling the truth as she knows it.



SadPhD
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13 Dec 2018, 2:40 pm

Why can't she just see that I'm unable to see it the way she does? It can't be that hard, can it?


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13 Dec 2018, 2:57 pm

I think saying "trust me I will come back" is another way of saying "I'm intending to come back". But I know what you mean when you say you don't trust the world. I am a pessimist and I don't trust the world. It's just that you hear things on the news, like freak accidents, that happen out of the blue and it's scary.
At work (at a bus depot) they sometimes have a bus raised off the ground by these special clamps so that workers can get underneath, but I'm scared to go underneath a raised bus because I keep thinking the clamps might fail and the bus will fall down and squash me flat. I know the clamps are solid and are made to lift extremely heavy vehicles up off the ground, but sometimes objects just fail for no reason, causing a freak accident. It's just what goes through my head a lot of the time.


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13 Dec 2018, 3:05 pm

SadPhD, your anxiety about the uncertainties of the universe is likely to suck all the life out of your friend if she lets you. Not everyone obsesses about possible bad outcomes. I suggest you joke with your friend about your irrational obsession on the things that go wrong... while reassuring her of your trust that she will do her best to come back.

Why can't she think like you do? Is it that hard? Yes, it's that hard and why would she want to, anyway? Anxiety is unrealistic fear or disabling fear. I wouldn't wish that on her - would you?


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SadPhD
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13 Dec 2018, 3:17 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
SadPhD, your anxiety about the uncertainties of the universe is likely to suck all the life out of your friend if she lets you. Not everyone obsesses about possible bad outcomes. I suggest you joke with your friend about your irrational obsession on the things that go wrong... while reassuring her of your trust that she will do her best to come back.


She doesn't believe that I trust her to come back. She thinks that unless I accept her assurance the way she said it, then I don't trust her. I DO trust her. I don't trust the world, and she seems to think I mean that I don't trust her to be able to handle the world and what it throws at her. Well, she can't stop a plane crashing, can she? I am having real trouble understanding how she can't see that - that that fact invalidates her assurance that she will come back. She can't guarantee that.

BeaArthur wrote:
Why can't she think like you do? Is it that hard? Yes, it's that hard and why would she want to, anyway? Anxiety is unrealistic fear or disabling fear. I wouldn't wish that on her - would you?


I don't understand how people can ignore the dangers of the world (which you characterize as "obsessing about bad outcomes"), and I admit that I can't see my anxiety as unrealistic. I see HER view as unrealistic - and dangerous. She's going to get hurt and I won't be able to help her. That's my biggest fear, and it's hardly irrational.

She can't guarantee that won't happen. So promising it won't is lying, isn't it?


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13 Dec 2018, 3:53 pm

Most people are wired to ignore dangers in their everyday life, as a long as they are familiar with them.
This is why people can live in California despite the obvious fire hazards.



SadPhD
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13 Dec 2018, 3:58 pm

BTDT wrote:
Most people are wired to ignore dangers in their everyday life, as a long as they are familiar with them.
This is why people can live in California despite the obvious fire hazards.


Hm. I live in California. Fires are just things that happen. So are earthquakes. Fires are predictable, and earthquakes happen so fast there's really no way to prepare for them except ignoring them.

Now tornadoes or snowstorms - I don't know how people can live like that, with that much uncertainty. I would go insane.

I don't know how to apply this to the current situation, though.


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13 Dec 2018, 4:01 pm

SadPhD wrote:
Why can't she just see that I'm unable to see it the way she does? It can't be that hard, can it?
Why is it important to you?

I trust no-one 100%. Nobody knows what the future will bring, so it's best to ignore their promises, smile, nod my head, and say "Thank you" whenever someone makes a promise to me. If they keep their promise, great! If they don't, then they probably never intended to anyway and I will never trust them again.



SadPhD
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13 Dec 2018, 4:04 pm

Fnord wrote:
Why is it important to you?


Because she expects me to trust her in this way, and I can't, and it's making her mad, and I care about her so I want to find a solution.

Fnord wrote:
I trust no-one 100%. Nobody knows what the future will bring, so it's best to ignore their promises, smile, nod my head, and say "Thank you" whenever someone makes a promise to me. If they keep their promise, great! If they don't, then they probably never intended to anyway and I will never trust them again.


See above for why that's not really possible in this case. Unfortunately. :(


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13 Dec 2018, 4:07 pm

trust is a useless and frankly misleading concept. no need to trust. just accept the possibility of change and be at peace with it. worry about what's in your immediate control rather than what you cannot control.


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13 Dec 2018, 4:10 pm

SadPhD wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Why is it important to you?
Because she expects me to trust her in this way, and I can't, and it's making her mad, and I care about her so I want to find a solution.
Then the only solution is for you to pretend to trust her. Yes, I'm telling you to lie, because if you can't let go of your convictions, then the only thing left is to lie about them.



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13 Dec 2018, 4:22 pm

I get the feeling that this friendship thing is something more than that. Why don't you admit it? Because I don't know any friends who are this hung up on semantics in their friendships.

And if it's actually a "relationship," then you have bigger issues than how you define trust and anxiety.

I want to repeat something: you will suck the life out of her. You want her not to travel because you're afraid you could lose her. You are the one with anxiety. She is the one who wants to live a full life. Incompatibility.


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13 Dec 2018, 4:25 pm

Good point. The OP may have something called "separation anxiety."



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13 Dec 2018, 4:50 pm

SadPhD wrote:
I'm struggling with a trust issue. A good friend of mine loves to travel.

I hate travel. I don't understand how anyone can like it.

But I wish she would at least tell me the truth when she's going places. She says "I need you to trust me when I say that I will come back."

I say "You can't promise that. And I can't trust that."

Why? Because she's promising something she can't guarantee delivery of - that she'll be safe and come back without being hurt. She can't control the weather, the people in the places she's going, or whether her plane's going to crash. So when she says she'll be back, she's either lying or ignoring the reality of the situation, and either way, it offends me and makes it really hard to trust.

If she would say "I fully intend to come back," I could trust that. And I would trust that.

But she says I'm splitting hairs, and that I should just know that's what she means. And I can't. And she's offended and thinks I don't trust her, when nothing could be further from the truth - I do trust HER. I don't trust THE WORLD.

Anyone else have this kind of issue with trust?

You can trust the world; you can trust that everything is impermanent, and that everything changes. INVARIABLY. NO EXCEPTIONS.
You're absolutely correct; intentional or otherwise, some day she'll leave and you'll never see her again. If you don't want it to be the former, stop being so goddamned pedantic and start treating her as the precious and terribly transient blessing that she is.



SadPhD
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13 Dec 2018, 5:29 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
I get the feeling that this friendship thing is something more than that. Why don't you admit it? Because I don't know any friends who are this hung up on semantics in their friendships.

And if it's actually a "relationship," then you have bigger issues than how you define trust and anxiety.

I want to repeat something: you will suck the life out of her. You want her not to travel because you're afraid you could lose her. You are the one with anxiety. She is the one who wants to live a full life. Incompatibility.


I don't know what it is. It was a relationship, but because of this issue, suddenly it's not, except it kind of is but not really. She won't talk about it, so I can't get any clarification about that.

Why does she need to travel to live a full life? Why can't she be happy staying where she is? That just makes no sense to me. Do my needs not matter here?


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VIQ/PIQ (updated 2018): 122/110
Official dx in 2001; re-dx'd in 2018