Challenging Stereotypes

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Many with Autism are believed to be good at maths; so are Asians.

Edit: what is the difference between having traits of Autism versus having traits of being Asian?

I don't know.

I have no Asian traits and I suck at math.

A cultural or racial distinction is not related to neurodivergence at all. Not all Asian people are good at math. Not all autistic people are good at math. Some autistic people are Asian. What is the point of this post?

Most Aspies I know (myself included) suck at math

No, no and nope.

The studious and good at math stuff? Cultural values, priorities in education, styles tied to language and attitudes, and competitiveness.
Nothing to do with autism like traits that would make it seem parallel in academic success.

Not to mention the traditions made in immigrating to the west?
It came from the older generations' colonialism or basically "do it better and prove themselves they excel to be worth being there".
Again -- collective survivalism. Far, far from the nature of special interests.


But without the competitiveness and the collective survivalism, outside the hustling and business?
Not any more or less autistic. Maybe even less autistic like. Still leaning towards the collective like conformism though.


As for myself...
I don't excel in maths. I can handle maths well only if I cared enough to try.
And I've yet to meet any math related savants at all.

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can you not consider the subjective diagnostic process like someone making up racial stereotypes to support their world view? I mean there is no objective evidence that Autism is a disability?

Autism is a disability. It doesn't make sense to take away functioning labels so that all spectrum people can receive support but then claim it is not a disability. The government or health services ain't going to take it very seriously if it's called a "difference".

I should add that I do think Autistic folk do have better abilities than 'neurotypicals' in many areas, but on overall balance... they get outmatched.

As an Autistic person I feel as though I am on the losing side?

Just my personal opinion. Not an insult to anyone on this forum.

Dr. Kanner discovered the continent of Asia in 1960.

But according to his criteria you could only get the diagnosis if you were a hard core low functioning Asian.

You had to be diagnosed as being from the Asian heartland of Mongolia, northern China, Japan, or Korea, to be diagnosed as Asian. What would today be considered "Asian level three, and needing maximum support". That's of course because all folks from Mongolia, North China, and the Japan area, have speech delays, no executive skills, can barely dress themselves, and some cant even go to the bathroom by themselves. Confucius, Mao, Admiral Yamamoto, actress Lucy Lui, and Bruce Lee, all them were just basket cases worse off than the Rain Man.

But recently they have discovered that "Asian-ness" is on a "spectrum". Many folks, even those who outwardly blend into society, can be afflicted with varying degrees of Asian-ness.

A few years ago I was diagnosed as being "Phillipino ". Not as severely Asian as a Mongol, or a Chinese, but definitely mildly Asian!

Meanwhile, while Kanner was voyaging to East Asia, Dr. Hans Asperger and landed in India. He discovered a population who were also heavy into learning, as well into running family businesses. And in the Nineties and early 2000s there was a seperate diagnoses of "South Asian". But nowadays they just merge South Asian in with the above East Asian syndrome into one "Asian" diagnosis.

I'm all for functioning labels and I feel sad that they had to take those away and lump us all together with "just autism". Yes autism can be complex and a non-verbal person can be really intelligent, but usually people like that fall into the moderate-functioning category, where it's a bit of both (high-functioning and low-functioning). People like me are definitely high-functioning, too high-functioning, enough to make me question my diagnosis. Even with this depression and anxiety I'm struggling through, I'm still naturally able to verbally communicate and express my feelings effectively to people. So even a professional would think I'm just an NT with stress and anxiety issues.

Functioning labels aren't really down to IQ, they're more down to the person's social awareness and understanding and how well we can mask, or even be "normal" without having to mask much (like some of us don't have many obvious symptoms to hide). I'm one of those people. The only reason I dislike crowds is because I get impatient with people standing or walking in my way, and the only noise I dislike is the sound of small children because it's very distracting. If I am stressed or overwhelmed the only thing I might do is roll my eyes or sigh, to express that I'm frustrated, although people don't like it. I don't go into meltdown mode.

Some autistics can't hide their symptoms so much, or if they do they can only do it in short doses before they need time to recharge, and if they do get too overwhelmed they might have a public meltdown or start stimming visibly without worrying about being judged. Also they usually need support, sometimes unable to work or hold down a job but can do other things like drive a car. This is moderate-functioning, or "average autism". Severe autism usually comes with intellectual disabilities too, where the person needs to be cared for all the time.

Good points Joe. I can see how you feel hurt being "lumped" with other autistics when you don't want to be.

I'm moderate-functioning and I know it doesn't mean I'm less intelligent. It means my test scores and clinical history showed I had more than the minimum number of autistic traits, and those traits were affecting my daily function quite significantly. For example, I stim so much and have so many repetitive body-focussed mannerisms that I was hurting myself. My social awareness and poor nonverbal understanding put me in danger of abuse and exploitation (which had already happened). I have very weak Adaptive Functioning skills meaning I can't deal with change or stress. I have a history of meltdowns. My sensory issues are so pronounced I can barely leave the house. I'm one of those people you referred to who can't mask or suppress a meltdown even if I try not to make a scene.

I'm saying all this ^ just to reinforce for whoever reads it, that being lower or even moderate functioning doesn't mean a person has a low IQ. It means that their autism affects them in significant ways and could be dangerous for the person's emotional or physical wellbeing if not monitored.

Apart from that, functioning levels don't seem to make much difference. I still had to go out of my way to find an Occupational Therapist and a decent ASD-informed counsellor. It's not like I got immediate services or anything. My doctor explained it will still be helpful to have "Level 2" in my medical records in case I have a public meltdown or a sensory freakout and doctors don't understand what's going on. I guess it's for legal purposes, then. She said it helps when I meet new medical specialists so they will understand my behaviours (mutism, no eye contact, misophonia reactions etc) instead of judging me or thinking I'm being difficult.

I was already on disability benefits prior to my diagnosis, but perhaps it would have helped me to get benefits if I wasn't.

I do believe there's a spectrum and we're all different, and our needs / abilities fluctuate to a certain degree so I don't know what the answer is. I don't expect everyone to have their own cookie-cutter box for their specific profile, and I don't like when people generalise what a certain "level" can or cannot do. My daughter is HFA on paper and I hate when people assume she's more capable than she is or doubt her needs. At the same time, I wouldn't want to paint either of us as being helpless, or act like we aren't both smart and capable women in certain situations. I think that's what you've been experiencing because you feel like people judge you by your diagnosis, and you don't want to be underestimated.

I don't know what the solution is.

I have an autistic friend who is intelligent. He's verbal and chatty but you can tell he's autistic by his mannerisms so he obviously can't hide it very well even though he is pretty sociable. But he belongs to a MENCAP society, which a club for people with disabilities. He enjoys going to those, but he probably wouldn't get on mixing with NT people. Even I sometimes feel NT when around him but I would never judge him like most NTs do (he gets bullied a lot and going to his MENCAP group is the only way he can be around people who accept him and are just like him, even if they're not autistic themselves but have other things like downs syndrome). He lives on his own in an apartment but has a social worker that visits him once a week, and his parents help him out. He doesn't work and gets disability benefits - which he deserves. His autism probably makes getting along in the workplace hard, despite being intelligent like he is. He's a good, decent guy. He's sent me videos of himself singing on stage in front of all his MENCAP friends, and he's made some brilliant sculptures out of clay.

So I'd say he's moderate-functioning.