A question i'm hoping N.T.'s can answer

Post Reply New Topic

Why is clothing regarded any differently in this world than any other object?

This is what brought up the question....This past weekend, I was chatting with a couple about life and other stuff. They were giving some "friendly" advice about my clothing and fashion tips. Most sounded pretty good and logical. The one that puzzled me however started with the shoes. He did not like the fact I was wearing vans shoes, and I didn't skateboard. He said I was a poseur for doing it. I've worn these brand shoes for years, and never thought anything of it. They are very comfortable, give good ankle support, hold up well, provide good traction, and I like the style of them. Most athletic shoes like Nikes and such look way too flashy and are more expensive.

I stated two examples attempting to figure out him and is girlfriend's thoughts on the shoes, but couldn't place what was the issue. I first asked him what he thought about someone buying studio monitor speakers from a music shop to use on their home theater system, even though they never would ever record music on them. Is that person a poseur? He's a contractor, and the tool brand of choice most contractor use is DeWalt. I then asked him what he thought of a banker going out and buying a DeWalt tool to maintain his home. Is that banker a poseur? He said that was fine to purchase and use these products, if it did those things did the job. I told him that was how I felt about the shoes...he couldn't figure me out! Why are the shoes any different than the speakers or the power tools? (other than the fact shoes don't consume electricity!)

To me, I see the banker buying a DeWalt tool as very smart, as he made a decision based on what professionals use to do the same job...same goes with the person with the home theater system, as I have seen the disappointing selection at most big-box electronics shops when it comes to good speakers!

I sort of feel a "Poseur" is someone that buys something that tries to show off an image that they really are not. For example, buying a Hummer even though you are not in the military does not make you a Poseur, but buying one and never taking the truck off of pavement and only driving yourself around is definitely poseur material. Still, I try and not judge people I see in a short moment. I don't know their reasons for owning or buying whatever it may be, and they can have a very legitimate reason for their decision. Why do these shoes I wear carry so much weight to the NT world? I feel my reasons are pretty legitimate, even though I don't skateboard.

This isn't from an NT viewpoint, but anyway...

Long ago when I was an impoverished student, I used to buy Nikes. This was before they got so popular, and so hellishly expensive. They were cheaper than Adidas and they suited the shape of my foot better, and they stayed in good, wearable condition for ages.

Then the Nike brand enjoyed a tremendous surge in popularity, and I stopped buying them, partly out of an anti-fashion impulse but mostly because I couldn't afford them any more. After that I was never able to find a sport shoe that I liked anywhere near as much.

My feeling is, if you're on to a good thing with your Vans, stick with 'em.

I don't think I'm an NT, but I also don't think this is an NT thing per se, but maybe it is.

One difference from your other examples is that skating has its own definite culture. Rent the documentary "Dogtown and Z Boys," if you are at all interested, it's awesome, very accurate, and shows you how it started. I skated in the 90s and stopped, and guess what? I stopped wearing Vans until I started skating again. I stopped again, but now I still wear Vans. Part of that is because I never formally decided to stop, I just took a break for knee surgery and never started again. Plus, I went vegan, and vegan shoes I like are hard to find, and Vans has awesome ones. I think the Rowley XL2s are the best footwear ever made.

Part of me says yeah, Vans are for skating, and if you don't skate... but I admit it doesn't really make sense. I'm sure Vans doesn't mind that people who don't skate buy them!

The only way you would be a posuer is if you told or let people have the impression you skated when you don't. You know why you like Vans, it's a free country, you're not pretending to be something you're not- wear them! Plus so many shoes look like them now, and Nike, etc., are making skate shoes, so who cares?

Are people who wear camouflage and aren't in the military posers?

Most people wear "Tennis Shoes" often and aren't tennis players. ("Tennies" if you are in the UK)

I wouldn't worry about it, only elitists throw out the poser card and most people don't care about details that mundane.

Vans were really big in the early 80's, when I was a pre-teen. None of us skated. I didn't know they were even thought to be associated with skateboarding.
It sounds like this guy is really attached to a group association. I don't think all NTs are that extreme.

You should laugh in his face.

I'm thinking about getting a pair of Vans myself, and I certainly don't skateboard!

If you like them and they look good on you, you should stick with them! Especially if they go with your outfits!

Anyone who calls anyone else a "poser" is insecure and is trying to fit into a stereotype. i.e. the guy in question is clearly a loser, and thinks that buying certain objects add to your personality.

AV-geek, I don't know if I'm AS or not but I'm certainly not NT. So I'll reply to your post.

I think your friend might be jealous of you. Vans are NOT only for skaters. Many many people wear them for comfort.

I used to wear vans back in the early 70's, boys shoes at that if I remember right, and I was never a skater. I know times have changed but I do have kids that range in ages from 11 to 27, so I hear about latest fashions and trends. My 22 year old son wears Vans for comfort. He's not the type to care what other people think of him... he does his own thing.

BTW, I don't think your friends attitude has anything to do with him being an NT. I think he has just misplaced his priorities.

I never really gave much thought to this, but I'll try to explain it in a somewhat logical way. I'm NT as in not diagnosably autistic, but in every other way far far far away from NT (adhd, ocd, maybe a bit schizotypal).

well throughout history, clothing has always been a way to show off your status. kings and queens wore lots of jewels and clothes with intricate designs and you could tell by looking at them who they were and that they were of a higher social class than you. they didn't have to say any words, if they had those clothes you KNEW they were rich. of course, the next most fortunate people wore fancy clothes too, but not quite as expensive because they just couldn't afford it. wearing fancy clothes got you respect because you knew the people wearing diamonds and whatever were the important people, the ones with power. all people are lazy, and clothes are the most effective way for people to show who they are without even having to talk. now though since we are in the modern days, we have a choice of which group we want to belong to based on what we wear.

like it or not, without even saying a word to someone, if they just get a quick glance at you, they will make a first impression about you. what do they see? a person with clothes on because we are assuming they don't know you. in their minds, they assume if you are wearing vans, you want to be seen as a skateboarder. if you are wearing clothes from whatever store sells overpriced clothes aimed at stupid teenagers near you, you are a "prep". if you are wearing a Pink Floyd t-shirt, you are a stoner. if they are wearing oversized t-shirts, gold necklaces, and baggy pants, you are "ghetto". and of course, YOU are choosing to wear those clothes because YOU WANT to fit the image.

all these thoughts race through the NT minds of the people observing you by default before you even say a word to them. if you aren't wearing the clothes for image it's too bad because you can't explain that to them before they see you and even if you do they think you are odd because it's not the way most (NT) people wear clothes. if you live in a rich neighborhood in the suburbs and dress "ghetto" you are a poser in the same way that if you wear vans and don't skateboard you are a poser.

that's our society guys! I think the freedom to wear what ever clothes we want is kind of a double-edged sword, with NTs obviously getting more of the benefits of it and ASDers and less fortunate people getting the shaft. if we want to, we can buy the stuff that would make the most social sense AND show people who we think we are without saying a word to them, but if we are more worried about saving money and being comfortable (probably like the stereotyped aspie), then all of this can just be one huge nuisance.

that is all!

Well Im a NT myself, and I can only say I agree with Kim in that I didnt know Vans were thought to be associated "Exclusively" with skateboarding.
I actually bought ones last month in a sports shop at the beach and I know over here people use them a lot, whether you like sports like surf , skating or you dont do sports at all, doesnt really matter, they´re nice and confortable, that´s all...

I never had any NT telling me such stupid things they told you,
Just laugh at them next time, tell them 80´s are back! they just have no clue about fashion obviously or they´re prob just jelous of you..., nothing to do with being NT, (actually NT are usually aware of what the latest trends are...so its kinda weird)

Shoes may matter to a lot of women, but I assure you, men don't mind too much about other guys' shoes. Even NT men.

I'm NT and I'm around alot of other guys in my field of work. The shoes we wear never really come up unless someone is wearing a pair that is pretty much falling apart with the sole about to come off. Even going out with a bunch of friends, guys don't talk about their shoes.


The "guy" that was talking about your shoes was either jealous or just enjoys making others feel odd.


Next time, stare at his hair. Tell him his hair cut reminds you of a landscaper, or a librarian, or maybe even a meat cutter's hair cut.....ask him why, then laugh at him and walk away.

okay, I am NT, I don't have time to read everyone's response to your question but it sounds to me like the guy was just being and a**hole. Seems to me he was just putting you down, probably to make himself feel better. It is completely stupid to think that only skateboarders can wear vans shoes!

I'm not NT but I definitely agree with those who said that the guy was probably feeling jealous of you. He probably saw you comfortable in your vans and wanted that for himself, but due to personal insecurities decided to try and make you fell left out so that he could feel a little better about himself.

I am an NT, but not a clothing nut.

I agree with you that your reason for wearing the shoes you wear is perfectly legitimate. They're comfortable, affordable, and aesthetically appealing: what more can you ask for in clothing?

But to many NT people, clothing is more important and significant as an emblem of subculture than as a utilitarian source of comfort. Because your looks are one of the first things NTs notice in sizing people up nonverbally, and your clothing is part of your looks, NTs are likely to expect your clothing to be a "statement," and they have certain cultural expectations as to what that statement is. If you're a woman who always wears long skirts or a man who always wears a Yarmulke, then you are taken as giving a statement saying, "I am an observant Jew." If you're a woman who wears revealing clothing, you are taken as stating, "I want sexual attention," and males will give you sexual attention accordingly, and some females get irked that they get a lot more and a lot cruder sexual attention than they were looking to get.

So, because of the NT tendency to size each other up by looks, and the cultural meanings we assign to clothes, many NTs will assume that you are making a statement with whatever clothing you wear, and a few will get upset if the statement seems misleading. A good example is men telling women not to wear revealing clothes if they did not want sexual attention or only wanted specific sexual attention from specific men, because men will often assume that if a woman wears revealing clothes, she just wants sexual attention, period.

Because we don't go around parading our record players and home power tools as part of our image - we are usually not seen socially with these things - we generally do not assign such cultural meanings to them. Clothing is different because it is an ever-present part of our social image. It is communicative, in a way, even if we don't consciously intend it to be, because we are naturally going to have some kind of reaction to it (beauty or ugliness, sexiness or modesty, etc.) that will color our further interactions with that person.

I think what GhostsInTheWallpaper is saying(nice post!) is that you can lead a clothes-horse to culture, but you cant make em think.