Why do NTs sometimes react angrily to people with AS?

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I am especially interested in NTs' explanation of why they became angry, especially those NTs using this forum.

Also anyone with AS who has been on the receiving end of NT anger but later got an explanation from the perpetrator.

I don't think that's NT-exclusive; EVERYONE is capable of anger, and I think that is more a personality trait.

NT woman married to a man with AS here.

NTs get angry at people with AS for the same reason that people with AS get mad at NTs, or for that matter, for the same reason that one NT gets mad at another NT or one person with AS gets mad at another person with AS:
* not communicating things in a way the other person understands (either physically can't understand--like too loud/quiet/fast/slow--or just that the way of expressing oneself doesn't fully communicate the message)
* doing or saying things too fast or too slow
* not behaving in a way the other person considers appropriate to the situation
* blaming the person for something the person doesn't think is their fault
* doing something the other person considers immoral

I'm sure there are more but I think those are the major ones.

I think the AS issues with authority or control can create conflict.
And also, the tendency to be totally open and honest... of course there are NTs who are this way also but in my experience, NTs do not express things in quite the same way...for example, if asked how they are, an aspie might be more likely to be honest, and include all their problems in the reply. To an NT that seems to, inmy experience, be uncomfortable and not what they expected... One is expected to say 'Ok, how about you?' or 'Not too bad, could be better, but anyway...'. That is my experience of it anyway.

The biggest reason in my personal experience is because we NTs have "communication breakdowns" of sorts where we don't feel comfortable expressing what we do/don't want directly, and so we don't get what we want, and we therefore get frustrated, overwhelmed, and sometimes even angry. When this communication breakdown thing happens to me, since my AS boyfriend can't pick up on any indirect communication of what I do/don't want (assuming I'm even indirectly communicating to begin with and not just failing to communicate altogether!), he keeps asking for what he wants until I remember that I need to give him one big final NO. In the meantime, I get really frustrated because I don't want to be bothered for whatever he wants anymore.

I rarely have any other occasion to get mad at my AS bf.

I used to get angry with my 9 year old son with AS because I thought he was being defiant and not listening.

Now I realise he processes information more slowly and has a receptive language deficit.

The way we communicate with him has changed and things are much much better.

Helen

Are there any NTs reading this forum with an insight on this ?

This reminds me of the time a street vendor got mad at me in Barbados. He was trying to sell my ex one of his gewgaws, and was talking a lot, trying to ingratiate himself. I stood behind her, watching them interact. After about a minute, he suddenly got upset and said "I don't like people who don't talk!" , looking to me, and waved his hand over the table to indicate the deal was off. All I had done was stand there, and I had never expressed any interest in his wares to begin with. I've never upset someone so much by doing so little.

You've already heard from three of us - ChelseaOcean, Smelena, and myself.

Perhaps you meant "are there any more NTs" or "this" was what was mentioned by the last non-NT poster, or something.

The person with AS is vulnerable and can't defend themselves socially, so they are laughed at and not given the special consideration that people usually give other people.

My bf does occasionally. It seems to be that just as I kind of expect him to know what I'm thinking, he expects me to react to things as he would.

ex. Yesterday I was in a pretty bad mood as all day long I was late to every place I tried to go to. None of these things were things that I had any control over either, but they all had similar results-me being frustrated with myself because I could not make it on time. My boyfriend comes over and the first thing he asks (because I suppose he could clearly see that I was extremely annoyed) is "why are you so irritated?" Of course, if I'm annoyed enough for it to be visible, chances are I'm about to blow, lol. I go to tell him but don't pay attention at all to my tone of voice, and it comes out as yelling. I am still not sure how that ties to anything really, as if he wanted to know, he would listen to what I'm saying, not necessarily how I'm saying it, and he would get the answer he's looking for. He got defensive instead, then felt like crap afterwards because everything I said after that he took it as an attack of sorts. When I returned from my appointment, he demanded an apology, which I didn't feel was needed since I never intended to make him feel bad and failed to realize how my actions lead up to him not hearing me out and getting defensive. However, he said that didn't matter, and that even though it was illogical to ask someone a question like that who is obviously pissed off and not expect a ticked off response, it didn't matter. He still wanted the apology just because he felt bad. I kept emphasizing that I was not the one who made him feel bad, that I couldn't magically change the tone of my voice to reflect that I wasn't mad at him and all from the beginning, and to expect an apology simply because he didn't hear me out or listen to my words rather than anything else was just silly. He insisted for TWO HOURS that I apologize. Finally, changing his mind when I said "okay, so you want a fake apology just to make you feel better, when I have no knowledge of why or how the heck I did anything wrong...". He didn't want that, lol-he wanted a heartfelt apology. His whole reasoning behind it was that it was because that is what HE WOULD DO. ...and my frustration with him was due to not understanding how he could see a fault in my part for his own emotional response.

It works both ways-we get annoyed with them, they get annoyed with us. I really think that "expecting people to know what you are thinking" as part of AS is kind of a crock really. Everyone does that to an extent every time they open their mouths. It causes miscommunication between people in general. NTs argue all of the time due to these types of things, and I can't imagine 2 AS talking together would have a different outcome, I just think it would be more logically solved rather than emotionally high-strung.

If you aren't meaning with communication issues with them getting angry, I suppose it is because they simply don't understand us, don't want to learn. To some of them, we are a nuisance that should be wiped out, they are not accepting of our differences and we are just in the way. To others, they try to understand but can't fully-that in itself is pretty frustrating, I think.

because they don't take the time to realise we work differently

Misunderstanding.

My take:

People with AS must, of necessity, employ abstract social strategies. NTs employ intuitive strategies derived subconsciously from what appears to the aspie (if it appears at all) as background social stimuli. To my mind, NTs are in many ways, led around by the nose, as it were, by these stimuli. They (NTs) are largely unconscious of the underlying form of these interactions, and take the visceral compulsion they feel to do or not do something as the adduction of necessary truth. In other words, if the social environment encourages it non-verbally, it must be done and vice-versa.

Aspies have little or no such compulsion. Their neurology simply doesn’t support the immediate and subconscious connection of the perceptual and the visceral regarding social stimuli. This is why I think it’s a misunderstanding to suggest that Aspies have “problems” socializing, they just don’t/can’t/won’t do it without employing a conscious effort. And because it is a conscious exercise, its appearance is quite different than in NT socialization.

So why do NTs get so rip-roaring mad at aspies? I think it’s because aspies don’t subconsciously internalize all the non-verbal subtext that NTs put out there. I don’t believe that the NTs are even consciously aware of the non-verbal, subtextual mechanism by which they socialize and therefore find the aspies apparent insouciance to their non-verbal cues to be a sign of disinterest, rudeness or outright hostility. Obviously it is none of those things. Aspies make up their minds about people and ideas using conscious, rational (or at least reasonable) strategies that have little to do with whether or not their immediate social environment non-verbally communicates its approval.

For this reason, NTs who are particularly given over to social conditioning and protocol (you know, headmistresses and debutantes and Miss Manners and people of that sanctimonious ilk) seem to view the normal functioning of aspies with great horror and opprobrium. To which I generally say, “F*ck y’all” but then again, I try to remember that they are generally not consciously aware that they are indentured to the social environment by merit of their pedestrian neuro-anatomy.

So take that, normals.

I don't think a person with AS/Autism would every be able to act like a normal. Because of all the things that normals do without even realizing it. There is no way an Aspie can figure out what those unconscious behaviors are. NT's don't know themselves as they are unconscious of them and they couldn't tell you what they are. They just know intuitively that you are not acting normal. So they will give you crap about it.

Excellent formulations, and very well worded, Mr Hamilton. I readily agree with the notion that NTs don't consciously consider the minutiae of their interactions, or perhaps even their choice of wording, which accounts for the mysterious insights produced by psychics and therapists. Aspies never learn these skills well enough for them to become automatic, like riding a bike, so they must deliberate what they say and hear.

Even entities as primitive as a Furby are capable of producing an emotional response in most people, so it isn't just aspies that frustrate NTs. It amuses me to hear people ascribe anthropogenic intention to their pets' actions, as well. As if a cat is capable of politics.