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how can you prove that autism is not a psychogenic disease?

Psychogenic conditions don't change your brain structure or mutate your DNA.

I didn't know AS mutated your DNA.

there's no real scientific research that support this theory .

Actually I just watched an episode of Nova this past week...I can't think what it was called. I should have posted a message about it.

It was about epigenetics (possibly spelling that right). Autism was one of the things that they're thinking may have an epigenetic cause (so technically not genetic, but certainlly related to that).

Plus people do have physically different brains. I'm not sure if it's been tested and verified in a large number of people with an ASD though.

But at any rate, no research I've heard of has ever supported the idea that it's psychogenic (always the opposite). And it doesn't respond to things that those types of issues might.

Last edited by Wolfpup on 19 Oct 2007, 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

I watched it too and it was really interesting. The episode was called Ghost in Your Genes.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/genes/

Here's the Wikipedia article about epigenetics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics

Thanks for that link! I couldn't remember the name of it to save my life

Psychogenic illnesses tend to more unstable. For instance, in people who are physically unable to speak (ex. they can't phonate) due to psychogenic causes or have severe psychogenic stuttering, their symptoms can often be successfully treated in an hour or less (obviously I'm not talking about PTSD-related problems or something like that). Plus, it is frequently possible to identify a precipitating life event. A disorder that can often be identified by 2 years (or retroactively at 1 year by watching home videos), and continues the rest of someone's life does not seem to be a good candidate for a psychogenic illness. Anyway, I doubt there are too many neurotic toddlers out there. Plus, as other people have mentioned, the definition of psychogenic includes a lack of organic cause, and there have been physical differences found in those with AD (not sure about AS). Also, people with AD are more prone to other neurological conditions such as epilepsy. ASDs just don't present at all like psychogenic disorders.

Last edited by LostInSpace on 19 Oct 2007, 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hmmm... you may need to catch up on your reading. Here's enough to scratch the surface on the brain stuff, the genetics can wait until after.

Evidence of Brain Overgrowth in the First Year of Life in Autism
Eric Courchesne, PhD; Ruth Carper, PhD; Natacha Akshoomoff, PhD
JAMA. 2003;290:337-344.

Brain structural abnormalities in young children with autism spectrum disorder
B. F. Sparks, BSc, S. D. Friedman, PhD, D. W. Shaw, MD, E. H. Aylward, PhD, D. Echelard, BS, A. A. Artru, MD, K. R. Maravilla, MD, J. N. Giedd, MD, J. Munson, PhD, G. Dawson, PhD and S. R. Dager, MD
Neurology 2002;59:184-192

Regional Brain Enlargement in Autism: A Magnetic Resonance Imaging Study.
PIVEN, JOSEPH M.D.; ARNDT, STEPHAN PH.D.; BAILEY, JAMES B.S.; ANDREASEN, NANCY M.D., PH.D.
Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry. 35(4):530-536, April 1996.

An MRI study of brain size in autism
J Piven, S Arndt, J Bailey, S Havercamp, NC Andreasen and P Palmer
Am J Psychiatry 1995; 152:1145-1149

The neuroanatomy of autism: a voxel-based whole brain analysis of structural scans.
Abell, Frances; Krams, Michael; Ashburner, John; Passingham, Richard; Friston, Karl; Frackowiak, Richard; Happe, Francesca; Frith, Chris; Frith, Uta
Neuroreport. 10( 8 ):1647-1651, June 3, 1999.

The brain in infantile autism
Posterior fossa structures are abnormal
Eric Courchesne, PhD, Jeanne Townsend, PhD and Osamu Saitoh, MD
NEUROLOGY 1994;44:214

Histoanatomic observations of the brain in early infantile autism
Margaret Bauman, MD and Thomas L. Kemper, MD
NEUROLOGY 1985;35:866

Defining the broader phenotype of autism: Genetic, brain, and behavioral perspectives
GERALDINE DAWSON, SARA WEBB, GERARD D. SCHELLENBERG, STEPHEN DAGER, SETH FRIEDMAN, ELIZABETH AYLWARD and TODD RICHARDS
Development and Psychopathology (2002), 14: 581-611

Fronto-limbic functioning in children and adolescents with and without autism
Loveland KA, Bachevalier J, Pearson DA, Lane DM
Neuropsychologia. 2007 Aug 31

Atypical involvement of frontostriatal systems during sensorimotor control in autism
Takarae Y, Minshew NJ, Luna B, Sweeney JA.
Psychiatry Res. 2007 Oct 2

Towards a neuroanatomy of autism: A systematic review and meta-analysis of structural magnetic resonance imaging studies
Stanfield AC, McIntosh AM, Spencer MD, Philip R, Gaur S, Lawrie SM.
Eur Psychiatry. 2007 Aug 30

Diffusion tensor imaging of white matter in the superior temporal gyrus and temporal stem in autism
Lee JE, Bigler ED, Alexander AL, Lazar M, Dubray MB, Chung MK, Johnson M, Morgan J, Miller JN, McMahon WM, Lu J, Jeong EK, Lainhart JE.
Neurosci Lett. 2007 Sep 7;424(2):127-32

Heterogeneity in the patterns of neural abnormality in autistic spectrum disorders: evidence from ERP and MRI
Salmond CH, Vargha-Khadem F, Gadian DG, de Haan M, Baldeweg T.
Cortex. 2007 Aug;43(6):686-99.

Disruption of cerebral cortex MET signaling in autism spectrum disorder
Campbell DB, D'Oronzio R, Garbett K, Ebert PJ, Mirnics K, Levitt P, Persico AM
Ann Neurol. 2007 Sep;62(3):243-50.

You're welcome

It was on this morning on my local station, so I taped it because I want to watch it again sometime.

that's a good one.

that's a good argument , a psychogenic disease is usually only temporary .