Things Go Downhill When I Speak

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One part of social interactions I'm pretty bad at is flirting and talking with women to stir up their interest in me. I have just begun my fall semester of college this Monday and met a few new people in my classes. In fact, sometimes when I sit down near a women, she will show what I interpret to be signs of at least mild interest in me. If I happen to tell them something funny, they seem to be a bit more positive towards; but, if I continue to converse with them for a few more minutes, the kinds of body language that I inferred were showing attract gradually disappear. Eventually, sometimes they seem to show little interest in talking to me at all. I do have a tendency to take too long to set up the background information for a personal anecdote or joke, but it's hard to know what details to leave out so that the other person will still understand you. I guess I end up boring them to death. Strangely, it basically seems like, if I keep my words to know more than maybe ten every five minutes or so and just nod or ask a question or two to keep them speaking, people will like me; but, when I actually try to tell anything significant, people lose all interest.

sounds like me, neanthumain. luckily, when i try to remember to keep my conversations relevant to where i am at work, i seem to manage to stop people from murdering me.

Last edited by vetivert on 07 Dec 2005, 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Well, actually, I don't think you want to be TOO passive in a conversation, because that will bore them too. But I do also have the same tendency to take too long to set up background info, and people who seemed interested in me at first will seemingly stop caring. I would say that saying something funny will usually work to your favor, but the problem is most of my jokes are "groaners".

I'm nothing like that. I talk ADD style. Scatter-brained, randomly off-topic, and can keep your interest for some time if I can manage to kep a good joke going. Still can't flirt though.

I do enjoy a good rant sometimes though. But most people heckle me when I start to rant, because arguing with me makes them last longer.

I think the trouble with keeping your mouth shut is that can irritate them too, especially if they aren't into talking much.

One of the biggest realizations I've had is they expect the guy to be showing signs of interest back and not just showing but following through on intentionality right off the bat. I like to get to know people well enough to know whether or not they'd understand me before I'd wanna commit myself or them in anything - that really seems to divebomb with women, kinda like what you mentioned with being too passive: that's my life story.

Lol, just today I was at Chipotle and there was some Gwynn Stephani-looking punk working part of the line. She looked up from the last persons order like she was trying to strike up a conversation and I can't believe how cold I was about it "Yeah, hi. Sour cream and cheese" - whats more is I was definitely a little abrupt with her. I felt bad afterward that I'd just automatically shut her down (and she realized it too, I kinda saw her get pissed and laugh it off) and had to think to myself in retrospect "What the hell is my life comming to that I'm treating people that way? That's f'd up".

To be a bit more realistic though, something about NT's just creeps me out too much anymore. I've learned from another girl who worked there that if you talk to em at any length (she went out with another guy who was in one of my classes that I talked to a lot and having an interest in cars she liked to talk about em with me a little since she saw I had one she was halfway interested in - stuff that seemed like it didn't necessarily carry conflicting messages) and do that for the next few times you come in it'll slowly downgrade untill they make no effort to hide the fact that they're furious to see you and putting on the fakest smile they possibly can. I know what's up, I know why I'm getting that reaction, but at the same time I also know damn well that it would be just as bad or worse if they saw my personality. It's like someone else mentioned with eye contact, a catch 22. At the end of the day though, sometimes I realize that I'm better of not letting they're hopes up at all, evidently I don't show the signs well that I'm dissinterested in a relationship but am interested in at least being sociable and chatting with people.

Try looking at the bridge of their nose, glancing away every 2 to 5 seconds and returning the gaze so that you look at them for something like 1/2 to 2/3 of the time.

While doing this, ask the other person a question whenever they pause. It helps if the question is intelligently connected to what they said previously and relevant to the other person (this is tough if you don't know anything about what they are talking about - try to avoid sounding like the emacs 'doctor' mode ) If they ask you a question, answer it with a short reply (one or two sentences at most!), and end by asking them something in return, ideally related to what they were asking.

This is really hard to do. It's a bit like learning to drive a car, in that the coordination of things (arms, legs, head, eyes in the car, and the same + thoughts in the date) is really tricky because it is all in real-time. I also have to try to make myself talk s-l-o-w-l-y, as very often I end up talking so fast that the other person can not understand what I am saying. All of this is much easier if you and your date's first languages are not the same (see other thread on dating ourside your race/nationality...)

It helps to have fail-safe contingencies planned. For example, have something to eat or drink to cover up spots in the conversation where you really can't think of anything to ask. In the worst case, have a temporary escape plan - an excuse to go somewhere else for 2 minutes while you calm down (make it clear that you are coming back!). I normally think through and plan all of these options (in too much detail) before starting.

This worked very well for me, though I find it very tiring to sustain for long. The more difficult part (if you are lucky) is the follow-on. What normally causes me grief here is that I now have enough information to predict what may or may not work well, so I end up spending hours mentally rehearsing possible conversations or activities. Annoyingly, this seldom helps much, as I normally predict wrongly, and the real world tends to be too random to be reliably scriptable (though fragments of imagined conversations are often very useful anyway).

Lastly, get yourself a visual makeover. I don't have much of a clue about what clothing, glasses, facial hair, etc are 'fashionable' (only what is comfortable!). This is also hard. You can try to copy ideas from magazines, but it is best if there is someone you know and trust who can help you.

Mark, I'm not sure if someone should just follow the latest fashions in order to be popular. I guess it is something to look into, but a person has to be comfortable with who they are, even if they aren't the trendiest person around.

Being a female, I must admit to getting annoyed when I was younger with guys who acted really cold as I thought they were being snobby and thinking they were too good to talk to me. It could have just been that they were shy or something else, but due to not having mind-reading skills, I couldn't tell if that was what it was.

I certainly don't think that anyone has to follow the latest fashions, and I always dress for comfort in preference to style (to the extent of being regarded as mildly eccentric for always wearing sandals and slacks when others are wearing suits). But even given this there are many ways to dress and I gather that these can all give a very different impression on others. Sometimes this can be good, sometimes bad, and advice as to which might prove useful.

One problem with this is that if you start off 'acting' too much, any relationship is going to be between the pretend chararacter you are acting out and the other person. This isn't likely to be sustainable, but when I was dating (I'm in a relationship now) anything which increased the chances of a date seemed like a good idea. I was in my late 20's before my first real date...

My friend's wife actually started hanging out with a girl who's kinda like that and innitially it just comes off as a yuppy thing but you see where when she goes out, she catches more than enough horor stories where guys just don't know their boundaries, show her no respect, and completely roll through her personal autonomy. I guess in her case and girls like her I've found the best thing I can do is show right off the top that I am the type of person who'll respect their space, see em as a person first rather than gender first, etc.

As for guys, I think we're also kinda particular about the attention we get as well though. I don't know if it's just me but when women have been to giddy about it (ie. giggling till they have tears ion their eyes and kinda reacting to me like some disney character) or being way too maternal about things, its a real invasive feeling and I guess it's because for one it doesn't set well with my personality and because it kinda feels like they don't know who they're talking to. Problem is most NTs even prefer to keep it dry of those things as well but then again if they do, they wanna hack it from another angle which I also am not good at following.