Everything seems to be an AS trait!

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In trying to figure out whether I have AS or not, it seems like however I do a certain thing, it could mean I have AS! But then when I try to use this with doctors to get diagnosed (doctors with much AS knowledge I mean, not just random psychologists/psychiatrists who may or may not have that much info), I get told that it's not or that it's not conclusive.

The cake frosting incident I posted in here yesterday was kind of an example of this, but there are others. It did make me think about this though. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt58956.html

People misunderstood what exactly had happened because I didn't add quite enough detail, and that probably was AS because it was a communication deficit on my part. But to add too much information is also Aspie. What is the right amount? Someone will always misunderstand, even if it's all NT's or all Aspies reading or listening to someone's anecdote. And people don't always use the same style when they tell stories in different situations, even if they are AS or NT.

I was Aspie when I went ahead and followed the recipe because my dad didn't know how to make frosting either. But following it caused my dad to say I had no common sense, which, had he known about AS at the time, he probably would have said I had it. If I had waited for my dad to come back into the room, I wouldn't be using initiative and that's probably considered an Aspie trait by some people (at least if they are dealing with an Aspie with not much initiative). Some people would say a big 11 year old girl should at least try to use her initiiative. But going ahead with the recipe with my dad out of the room was also Aspie.

Also my dad might presumably have been Aspie for leaving the room in the first place, showing distractibility. (I disagree--he wasn't AS for one thing, and he probably had a good reason to leave like the phone ringing, the doorbell ringing, needing to use the restroom, etc. And I was 11, not 1.) However, if he ignored those things he certainly would have been behaving in an Aspie way, so bent on finishing the frosting and unable to switch to another gear to answer the phone or use the restroom. I guess he could have talked on the phone and to me at the same time, I suppose that would've been the most NT to do. But 40 years ago people didn't do that as much as they do now.


These are just a couple examples, but I'm faced every day with wondering if what I do is AS and seeing that everything could be interpreted as AS, except extremely social things.

If I worry about what someone thinks of me, that's AS because I'm insecure and someone my age should know what's the correct way to act and if I don't I'm AS.

If I don't worry, that's certainly AS too. Of course a confident NT person would know that they knew what to do and go ahead & do it, and not worry because they knew they were right. But then what if someone said they were wrong. If they then doubted themselves a little bit, is that AS because they don't trus themselves fully? But not doubting at all seems AS too because it's AS not to listen to others and go on with your own thing.

Is any non-confident adult an Aspie?

Here's an example that happened today. Our city's bus fare went up. Teh company I work for purchases bus passes for those that wants them and the amount is deducted pre-tax from our paychecks--this is soemthing that can be done under US tax laws. The passes we got this month were at the old rate, which is the "off-peak" rate now (off peak meaning not during the regular commute times in morning & evening. We have "peak" and "off peak" bus fares here). We just got them yesterday and I noticed this on the way home when looking at someone else's pass. I mentioned this to my boss. Should I have? Was it meddling in something that wasn't my business, which I guess is an Aspie trait to some? But if I didn't ask, that would be Aspie too because NT's are supposed to communicate their questions, not be afraid. But shouldn't I just have assumed that the company knew about the fares but didn't have the option to purchase the pass at the new rate, which was in fact what happened? Would an NT have assumed that?

Anyway, you can see why I have so much trouble with this and why I wish I'd never heard about AS. In fact, I stipped working for a year and a half because I was so sick of worrying all the time if my every communication difference meant I was an Aspie. Of course I still worrried about everythign I did, but at least I didn't worry that someone was going to accuse me of being in denial about AS.

Does anyone else have problems iwth this?

Edited to add a link

Also the attention thing. If someone gets distracted easily, they are AD(H)D but distractibility can also be Aspie. But if they can concentrate on something a long time, they're Aspie. Which is it--easily distracted or not easily distracted? How easily distracted? If I realize that other things are going on but I can keep up with my work as needed, but also can drop it if need be, is that AS or NT or ADD or what?

I recommend "The Complete Guide To Asperger's Syndrome" by Tony Attwood. AS presents differently in different people. Some aspies have problems with coordination and motor skills while others excel at sports. Some do well at math, some struggle with it. Some tend to focus intently on an interesting task but can be distracted easily from an uninteresting one. This has nothing to do with your dad and the frosting.

It may be bugging you that he insulted your common sense unfairly. In his day, children were often pounded into shape by their parents: "What the hell's wrong with you, stupid?". The sooner they realized that life was hard and unfair, the better. These days we try to build self-esteem instead of smashing it out of ignorance.

Eventually, you have to stop worrying as much about how other people see you. There is a tiny amount of arrogance involved, but not enough to hurt anyone. If your employer has an employee assistance program, talk to a professional who can help you put things in perspective. You're not going to be like everyone else. Get used to it and make it work in your favor. Learn to forgive yourself if you do something embarrassing, learn from your mistakes and try to enjoy what you have instead of worrying about what you don't have or do.

I honestly think you may be reading too much into things. I don't think it's uncommon for kids (or even adults) to make that kind of mistake while cooking. In fact, IMHO it's just good sense to follow the package when cooking. Most people don't know how else to do it, unless they're quite experienced cooks. It's also not an exclusively aspie thing to attempt that kind of project without parental supervision. 11-year olds of all neurotypes often try to be independent. Remember that you're an individual, not a syndrome or disorder. Just because you know about AS now doesn't mean you have to shove everything that happens, or which happened in the past, into the "AS box." I know I was tempted to do that after I started seriously researching my diagnosis, but I think it's better to be honest with yourself about what AS traits really are and to what extent you really have them. Remember, no one has every single trait listed. I think some aspies make the mistake of thinking they have to "fit" all of the "symptoms." I've made this mistake myself on occasion.

To answer your question, no, not every non-confident adult is aspie. Problems with self-esteem and confidence are common, to varying degrees. I'm sorry this is such an issue for you, but it seems to me that worries about whether you have AS or not or if someone will accuse you of being "in denial" about AS is your biggest problem. I don't know much about self-diagnosing, but from what I've heard from other people it seems as though you shouldn't think of yourself as aspie until/unless you're comfortable doing so. Don't try to force it. First and foremost, you're Norah.

Your fear about someone accusing you of being aspie does seem irrational to me. Since you've been evaluated multiple times, can't you just say "I've seen several doctors who don't agree" if someone brings it up? I also think that the chance of that happening is extremely small. Someone I don't really know has only suggested that I have AS once to me, and that was in the middle of a meltdown in which all of my traits were way more obvious than usual--nothing even close to eye contact, obvious hand-flapping. AS is often portrayed in terms of the most "obvious" cases, so I really don't think you have much to worry about even if you are aspie. I hope you're able to work out your confidence issues and your concerns with what other people think. Even if you are aspie, I think it's a somewhat separate issue.

i think the only AS-ish thing you can link to the cake is a bit of absentmindedness... and that's not really a deal sealer

i checked your profile... and while i can't say if you have AS or not.... I do know that it's hard to DX the older you are cause you've adapted more and perhaps minimized a lot of your issues.

what do your docs think of you? .. maybe i should reread whole post sorry if i missed it.

Nora,

There are LOTS of potential symptoms. HECK, I have a pain in my back. Is it a bruise? Is it a hurt vertebra? Is it a bone spur? Is it a slipped disk? Is it scar tissue? Is it a sprained muscle? It could be any of the above! Likewise, you have to look at AS symptoms, and see how they fit.

Frankly, a rose by any other name is still a rose. So your father used the term "common sense". I don't see it that way, and it was ONE incident.

Hi Norah

I really think you're going about this the complete wrong way. For me, and I think for many, Aspergers is an explanation for the way you already are, always was and always will be. Most feel a great sense of relief once diagnosed, or once they discover AS because it makes what they have been struggling with (society) all their life make sense. Everything lines up into a coherant picture of "why?".

I realise I read a lot into things too, and despite our age gap I think we are going through the same things, from very different perspectives. When I found AS it was like someone was reading my life's story to me (albeit from a generic viewpoint) when they didn't even know me. It was really quite a moment.
Though, I am also quite neurotic and read a lot into things, however my perspective is one of, I will do something that I have always done and I will realise that it is an Aspie trait, and I will smile and know why I do it.

For example, I always walk in patterns depending on the surface I am walking on. I sometimes get in a mood and go out of my way to adhere strictly to the patterns, sometimes I follow them on a more geometric level.

I also always make funny faces at myself (even without a mirror or reflective surface) and do obscure things with my body just to see what it would feel like to do it. I constantly jiggle my legs and tap my fingers, even more-so when stressed.

I'm not really socially anxious, but I get incredibly irritable and impatient in social situations where its not going my way or its not something i'm interested in. I also talk over people, interrupt and will talk regardless of whether people are listening if its about my special interests. My ex-girlfriend and her family used to think I was exceptionally rude and thought I was better than everyone else.

All of these things I did I couldn't really say why before. I did funny faces to see what it would look like or how it would feel, but outside of that if I asked myself "Why did I want to find out how it felt?" I couldn't up with an answer.

I now know or think I know, that it is to self-stimulate (or Stimm), and that my patterns are part of my analytical mind seeing the patterns or base of the things around me. It doesn't make me any less me. All Aspie's are different.

I think, given you have been to 9 doctors and 4 AS specialists, you need to think about why they didn't diagnose you, why they said you don't have AS as opposed to diagnosing you with Social Anxiety.

If you have AS you've always had it and always will. I just think that you're attitude towards your own self-discovery is more a reason for the past 6 years than any condition that you exhibit or have. Self-Discovery is about finding answers, but you also have to be able to realise when the answers have been presented to you.

But then again, the first doctor who I saw who had any experience with AS flatly said I didn't have it because I managed to form a meaningful relationship with another person to the point of marriage. That was without even hearing anything I had to say.
Though he is now at a point of possibly referring me to an AS specialist based on the stuff he has heard, as well as how I react to taking Citalopram (an anti-depressant that bolsters Serotonin levels).

Have you been prescribed any drugs? Or is there a reason why you keep going to different doctors? Maybe you should try pressing the issue with one doctor who you are most comfortable with, as going to a different doctor every time doesn't give them much background, which is what AS is all about.

In answer to your question. I think most people in the world have a large number of Aspie traits. However it is their consistency, inability to change, and the extent of the materialisation of these traits into discernible physical actions and their existence since childhood that determines conclusively whether someone has AS or not. These traits should remain constant (to an extent) and consistent regardless of how functioning the person is.

For example: An Aspie will never be able to read body language, only states of difference; an Aspie will never feel completely confortable in an unfamiliar and unprepared situation social or not; An Aspie will always be able to focus intensely on something they have a vested interest in, permanent or not; An Aspie will always enjoy time on their own and in most cases need time on their own to gain perspective and focus. These among many other traits are things that on varying levels(depending on how functioning they are) will remain consistent throughout their entire life from child to adult. What i have said is quite general, but you get where I'm coming from.

If in 6 years (after finding Aspergers)of searching for yourself consciously (going to doctors, researching etc) to the exclusion of your working life and all else, you still haven't come to a conclusion you are satisfied with, maybe you should ask why you started searching in the first place, and maybe whether you are unable to accept any answer you are given. I really hate to be that blunt, (i'm sorry), but at 50 / 51 years old, you owe it to yourself and anyone you intend to be involved with to be comfortable with who you are, and how you have reached the point you are at currently and I really think the stepping stone for you achieve is to resolve your attitude towards your own self-discovery so you can finally come to a conclusion that you can work from and have a foundation with which to base the rest of your life on.

Sorry for the long post.

I think about this a lot. Is my love of cats an AS trait? Probably not. I've loved animals all of my life. I believe it was my mother's teachings that instilled in me a love of animals.

Is my fascination with Roger Bannister an AS trait? Perhaps it could be, as it seems out of place for someone only 43 years old. However, I prefer to think it is better to like a person famous for genuine accomplishment, rather than merely for being famous, like most of today's celebrities. .

Is my tendency to do stupid things, regardless of my intelligence AS? This is one of the most embarrassing aspects of the condition for me.