Lashing Out or Fantasy Killing

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NeantHumain has a very lively discussion forum going about how he was arrested after throwing ketchup on a food service woman with whom he was irritated.

William Freund just shot two people.

I have never been arrested, and I've never shot or assaulted anyone. But to be perfectly honest, when I read about both these incidents, my reaction based on my own experiences was, "I understand on some level why both did what they did."

I would like to know whether I'm alone here, or whether other Aspies feel the same way.

For example: before I was diagnosed, I often felt a good deal of anger bottled up in me. I have no other conditions other than AS, but that was enough. I would get into situations in which I felt threatened or put on the spot, and I would be unable to get help or express myself. I would be bullied, or belittled, and I couldn't spew back the vitrol or punches than any reasonably glib NT of my intelligence level would have shot back, or ask someone for assistance. The pressure would reach a point where I would fantasize about getting the drop on and killing those responsible for my misery, either peers or authority figures. Even a simple misunderstanding that I couldn't correct could build into these fantasies.

No one who knows me would characterize me as an aggressive person at all. I trap spiders and take them outside rather than squash them, for Pete's sake. But man, I would plan in detail the untimely death of these villians who were apparently trying to subvert my existence. I truly felt my life was threatened, and I often resolved to stop the attack by guerilla action if it came to that. (It of course never did, and I learned about my condition and got tremendous relief that way....)

On one occassion when I was around twelve I lashed out. A particularly mean-spirited boy in my youth group, Mr. Nasty, would stand next to me and pinch me when no adult was looking, or punch me in the arm and give me ugly blue bruises, then laugh. He somehow knew I wouldn't be able to ask for help (He had what I call as**ole radar, which zeros in on victims). Well, he grabbed a flap of my skin on the back of my arm and twisted, and I uncorked on him. I jumped him instantly and slapped him up something good. They had to pull us apart, and I was on top going to town. I felt very guilty about that. I knew I had broken the rules, and I was always so careful about following the rules. But the point was, I felt like I had run out of options. (Side note: Mr. Nasty never touched me ever again.)

Perhaps I'm just a former Angry Young Man on a tangent, but I think this is important to discuss. We've all bemoaned at length the violence that has happened invovling our AS brethren and sworn that it is anomalous. We don't wish to be seen as dangerous or unpredictable people, and that makes sense. Under unstressed conditions, Aspies I think are among the most peaceful of human beings. But is this really the whole truth? Should we risk acknowledging this darker side, the side that becomes stressed easily and in some cases lashes out to perpetrate regretable damage?

(I know Mr. Nasty wished he'd have known it...)

Yes, I can understand where you're coming from.
Sometimes, the only thing that stops me from going and pushing as many people as possible in front of trains is that I have the most rigid self-control in the world, and the fact that I am always aware of the possible consequences of my actions.
I think that if we acknowledge the dark side, we have more chance of having some control over it. If we try to repress or ignore it, it will be more likely than not to catch us unawares at our most vulnerable moment.

Everyone has bad feelings. The difference is that NeantHumain didn't pre-plan his attack, it was just that the world got too much for him and he snapped. It wasn't premeditated, unlike your other example, which sounds like it had been planned for months.

Certainly. . . . . .which is why I joined the wrestling team. I keep myself fit, and I know enough to seriously hurt another person. The knowledge that I can is enough to supress me, because it reminds me that others are fools for insulting me, and if they choose to escalate it into psyhical contact, I can put them into a hospital. This awareness helps me keep my cool, and keeps me from really asorbing the insults of fools.

Doesn't everyone Neurotypical and Autistic alike have a point where they will stand up and say, "I'm not going to take this any longer"?

When cornered or left without options many will fight in their own self defense. I've quit many jobs for this reason. Your self respect and self esteem can only take so much.

I think there's a line though. I think everyone, if they're honest with their feelings, would say that they've had horrible thoughts of hurting another person or doing something bad. Thinking about it and doing it is quite a different thing, though.

I think excessive thoughts of violence is not a good thing either but then, I think that anything done in excess can be bad.

I don't understand it. Maybe it's because I'm female, but I tend to internalize everything and get (in order) upset, blame it all on myself, get more upset and start obsessing/brooding over it, get profoundly depressed, feel hopeless, and lastly, feel self destructive and suicidal.

This isn't to say I don't get angry at other people- I do. But it flares up quickly, dies down fairly quickly, and then I am left shaking (literally) from the adrenaline rush. Anger scares me, I don't like it. I put up with a lot of bull just to keep from getting angry. When I am angry, I feel irrational and unreasonable (perhas this is universal) or sometimes cold and controlled, but it never turns into a brooding obsessive anger, which it seems would be necessary to go out and kill somebody else.

My 13 year old son seems happy go lucky when things aren't stressful (watching TV and playing video games, ALONE). But he has lately been so touchy and upset if he is asked to do anything he doesn't want to do (school related, church related, home related). He has told me when he calms down that he wants to hurt people. He never has, but I worry after the recent news if he in fact will one day.

I am looking for anyone on this site to give me as a mom some practical advise on how to help my son. I know teens in general go through changes. His diagnosis is also ADHD. He is on meds, but he is more secluded and though he wants friends, doesn't really have any.

I don't want to ignore this and would appreciate any input from families or aspies on this site.

Thanks!

Hello tdj0213 and welcome,

13 is a very emotional stage in a childs life. It's good that you talk with him about what frustrates him. Keeping those lines of communication open is very important. It helps to know when he's frustrated, that there's someone he can talk with, someone that cares about him.

Taking your anger and putting it into something constructive is good too. Cleaning, Drawing, Woodworking, Outside Projects...anything constructive to put that anger into constructive action is good.

My son uses a journal to write personal feelings in. It has really helped him to clear his mind about subjects that really bother him...also he has done some of his best writing during these times of frustration. I NEVER read his personal journals but sometimes, he's pretty proud of his work and will print out a particular journal posting for me to read. Amazing stuff, some of it. You might have him try a journal. My son has done this for over 15 years.

(PS - How about your son joining WrongPlanet, too? We have many young people here that post regularly in the Kids Forum.)

I think you've got it summed up perfectly here. I'm supposedly NT.. my kids and spouse are all AS. I have definitely had these feelings, trust me. I think every human being has had these feelings, no matter whether they fall on the spectrum or not or have other issues. It is part of our make up and is what has allowed us to survive on this planet.

That being said, I'm very worried about my oldest son right now, age 16 who was recently involved in a car accident where his car was totalled. Because of all the ambiguity, and the letter of the law, he's been found 100% liable, even tho the other party has definitely lied about some things.. but, the strict letter of the law which says that the car doing such and such always has the right of way is the defining point.. anyways, long story short, my son knows he did no wrong, we know they've lied, he's angry. He wants revenge against the other party--and he wants justice, and I'm trying to figure out how to get him to understand that some things happen this way, they're not fair, but exacting revenge is not the right way to handle it.

I know, I got off on a tangent here, sorry.. just wanted to say that yes, we all feel this way, no matter if we're Aspie or not. It's part of being human. What matters, however, is whether or not we act on it. Unfortunately, William F handled it in a catastrophic way.

If anyone has any suggestions on how I can best help my son.. please pm me... I would love any suggestions.

Thx!

Thanks for the reply. Actually, he was written expressive disorder as well as AS/ADHD and so getting him to write is next to impossible. We have tried introducing keyboarding but he struggles with processing the information and putting it on paper. We are considering Digitally speaking as an option.

I like the idea of woodworking. He hates art, won't draw,I think it was a negative experience in elementary schools that caused him to hate it so much. But, he may like woodworking and it would be great to teach him that skill as well.

He sees the terrible injustices in life as well and he shuts down almost daily at school. Middle school has got to be the worst time in a person's life! He will go to 9th grade high school next fall. We hope this change will positively affect him, though I have heard horror stories about HS even.

I am thankful for a place to express concerns with others. I would not have know about this site if it weren't for the recent events.... a sad commentary that it took something tragic to open the doors to something that may in fact help us with our own son.

I do understand this feeling. I work with dogs with behavior problems and I think I am sucessful because I am very similar to them. I have always said I hate to be cornered. I have never been excessivly violent because of the fear of breaking rules but I have been very angry and scared in my life. The other option I have is to become so divorced from the situation that I no longer have any feelings about it.

Y

The only time I ever hurt someone (apart from by accident) was when I bit a boy in kindergarten. He did bite me first though. I did have a few 'meltdowns' though where I trashed toys and then lost all memory of it (I still remember 'coming to' at a birthday party my Mum organised for me, with my building blocks strewn all around my bedroom, and the few kids who had been in the room with me before had been sent home).

However in crowds, from noise and so forth, I do often feel urges creeping up, both urges to hurt myself (biting especially, and throwing myself sideways against walls) and to lash out. I have never acted on the lashing out urges, and only very rarely on the biting ones. But they are there and I am aware of them - I can completely understand how many autistics who lash out or self-harm from sensory overload feel, and I share the urge. The only difference is I can control it.

Having someone to talk to about whatever's going on is always great. Whenever I am having incredible stress, my communication skills drop down to nill and it's at that time when I really need someone to talk to/to listen. But that's the time when most people don't seem to have the patience to wait and let me find the words.

I don't know about a therapist or anything, since so few therapists are experienced with AS. Maybe some kind of big brother program? Something?

WOW. The more I read, the more I understand how very AS my son is and that he is acting in a way that is "normal" for him. I am not diagnosed, but at times experience these same emotions and understand how someone who has been "overloaded" can just lose it.

We did go to a psychologist, but there was a change in his employment situation (now works for our county school system) so we haven't found a replacement. Has anyone experienced a positive turn around from therapy? Is this something you outgrow, or as some of you have said "learn to control"? I worry that I am trying to change my child and I don't really want to give him the impression that he needs to be fixed. I just want him to be better able to cope and develope into a normal (whatever that means!) adult who can keep a job and has ambition. Right now, that is a stretch for him.

Actually, I was in "talk" therapy for TOO many years. And the best therapy I had outta that was when my favorite therapist didn't therapise me but we just talked about anything and everything. Almost like regular conversation. I hated the therapists who tried to make me "confront" stuff.

It's great when the therapist does the "friend" thing because the Aspie really is learning about socializing and communicating. A therapist who goes with the flow is the best kind so I've found. For me at least. Your son might be the same way.

Also a therpist who isn't averse to working on simple issues and not adamant about digging out deeprooted stuff, those are refreshing. "Deep" emotional stuff isn't my fortay.

Nope, I just took it and took it from Mr. Nasty, and one night when he pulled his usual stunt, I had sort of an epiphany. I realized he might respond to violence, and I swung around and jumped him. I hardly knew what happened myself. It was terrifying.