Makes no sense (or I'm much more ret*d than I thought)

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I have a new friend, who I met almost 3 weeks ago. He's 14 and in grade 9, while I'm 17 and in grade 12, but it's not like age matters. I met him in the resource room, which is where students with IEPs (Individual Education Plans) come to do work when they need help, a computer, or a quiet(er) environment than a classroom. Also, several students (including me) spend some or all of their lunch period there, and so lunch periods aren't quiet.

Back to my story: I had thought at some point "what if he has AS?" even though I had nothing to base it on except that he has an IEP and before we met, he spent his lunches alone on the stairs, thinking and listening to music. After spending time with my new friend, one thing I found out was that his IEP said he didn't have to take Phys. Ed. I had had to take Phys. Ed so I thought that was evidence that he doesn't have AS. I later discovered that he is able to "read" people's eyes, and I basically decided at that point that he doesn't have AS.

He seems perfectly capable, and he's able to do things I can't. I couldn't see any flaws in him, yet he has an IEP. I felt inferior. I wanted to know what his "condition" was, and on Friday I convinced him to tell me. He said he's autistic. I told him I am too, and I asked him to be more specific. I listed HFA, AS (and I told him it's what I have), Rett's Syndrome, etc. and asked him which kind of autism he has. He didn't know, but he said he thinks he has AS. That didn't make sense to me because:

- He has perfectly good communication skills.
- He has perfectly good social skills (from what I can tell)
- Like I said before, he can "read" people's eyes and have a general idea of what their thinking
- He can multi-task (example: he can listen to me and his music at the same time and take in both)
- He doesn't seem anxious (he tells me I worry too much)
- While he does have an obsession (anime), he doesn't bring it up much in conversations
- I'm sure there's more but I can't think of them right now

He says his autism makes him smart. He claims that he has the brain of a 20-year-old. I told him how "I got screwed in that category. I got plenty of autistic traits that society sees as negative, but I didn't get a super-high IQ". He told me that having the brain of a 20-year-old is not the same as having a high IQ.

I still haven't seen any flaws in him, except that he often laughs at the pain/misfortune of others (as do most people). I have always blamed autism for my flaws and difficulties, so you can imagine that I feel even more inferior since my friend told me he's autistic. If autism isn't the source of my flaws, then what the heck is wrong with me? I used to feel like an inferior person because I have autism, but now I feel like I'm inferior even to other autistics - at least some of them. I've been told that I am very high-functioning for someone with AS, but if my friend is any indication, I am much more ret*d than I thought.



Update:
In a coversation I had with him today, he said that nobody knows the "real" him, except for his best friend who he hasn't seen in a long time. I said "so you spend your whole life acting?" and he said "yes". I thought this "acting" might be him coping and hiding his autistic "symptoms". I asked him about it, but he said no and he denied having autistic symptoms. I said "you must have some autistic symptoms or else you wouldn't have autism", and he said "just because you have something doesn't mean you 'have' it". As you can imagine, that confused me further.
I asked him why he hides the "real" him and he said "do you really want me taking notes on who you are, what you say, what you do, etc.? Actually, I'm doing it right now in my head. I'm a collecter of information." I told him that could be a symptom of Autism, but he said it's not.
I told him later that I think he's in denial, but he said "no I'm not". I told him that his denial is so deep that he denies being in denial. He said I was making assumptions.

Being his friend has been stressful. He does certain things because he knows they bug me.
-he teases me (which I don't like and I often feel like he might be serious - sometimes he says he's serious and I wonder if that's a joke too)
-he argues with me
-he's sarcastic a lot
- when I ask him questions his answers often contain "yes and no" or "may or may not" and he won't give me more information (which leaves me anxious/frustrated and/or unsatisfied)
-he seems to enjoy pointing out what he's better at since I've told him how it makes me feel inferior.
Why doesn't he understand and respect that I don't like those things? He thinks it's funny and he doesn't care and/or realise that I seriously dislike it. Maybe that's a symptom of his autism...

Last edited by DJRnold on 29 Sep 2008, 3:26 pm, edited 6 times in total.

No, some people don't have the same severity of symptoms as others do. He might be just very high functioning, or he's blended it well enough to hide it. I've recently made a friend on the spectrum (I'm not exactly sure where), and while I'm far more anxious than her I tend to have a better sense of how to keep a conversation structured and going. You shouldn't feel inferior.

First of all, I can't help it. Second of all, why not? It's true. He can do everything I can't. The only advantage I have over him is that I'm a nicer, kinder person. But that's not as important to me as the skills he has that I lack.

try think of positive way your skills what u have or dont have make u who u are ..what kind of world it would be if every one would be perfect

Whatever, there is always going to be someone better looking, better socially, more intelligent, more productive, and generally happier than you. That's life. It's the same for NTs, and especially so for people with ASDs. You just have to be happy with what you're capable of doing and how you are.

And I'd rather be a nice person than socially perfect. But maybe I'm more moral than the average person.

DJRnold,
this is how each PDD and the spectrum works-no two spectrumers are the same,it's all on different severities,strengths, weaknesses, coping abilities etc.
maybe he could have impairment or special needs related to his ASD are not aware of,as he would not have an IEP if he didnt have the need.

will always find those who are better off and those who are worse off with the same conditions,but that does not make any difference to anyone,or at least,should not,this difference in abilities,impairments etc is normal and part of life,having lived around them-some are so profoundly multiply disabled they are unable to do almost anything and spend most of their lives in bed unable to move,communicate,eat,have a babies mind and can stop breathing at any moment others may have no impairment,no big problems and be able to buy everything they want or have high intelligence to use,business stuff etc-but why be bothered about what others have and self doesnt? it's not something that will ever change how self lives,the only way that can do that is to concentrate on how self wants to live.


also,if have aspergers,it wont be retardation that is causing a problem,it isnt diagnosed if are on the MR spectrum as well,the struggles have got will be related to something else,maybe that needs to be mentioned to someone offline,such as family,support staff,TA,SENCO,teacher at school as they may be able to do something about it.

It's true that someone will always be better than someone else at something. Someone is smarter. Someone is stronger. Someone is happier. But those shouldn't all be the same person! There shouldn't be someone who's better at everything than me, or even most things.
Also, there's got to be people on this planet who are the best in the world at something.
That's the problem. I'm not happy with it. How can I be when I'm constantly surrounded by people who are better?

AS people CAN have good communication skills!
AS people CAN appear to have good social skills!
"read" people's eyes? I guess AS people could do THAT also.
multitasking isn't that hard. Ironically, there is garbage that claims that NT males can't multitask! That is overblown!
You can be AS and not seem anxious.
He is 14! Maybe he tries to avoid such talk, or maybe you haven't triggered it!

So he has an IQ of about 143. I DOUBT he actually has a 20year old brain. There is no way to measure that anyway. He probably meant the INTELLIGENCE of a 20 year old. (20(MA Mental Age)/14(CA Chronological age))*100(Normal IQ)=143IQ

BESIDES, you are OBVIOUSLY WRONG! If he ALWAYS acts normal, is very intelligent, is social, and has control, he wouldn't have an IEP.

As for ME?
I communicate well. I only lose that ability when I am really nervous.
I probably appear to have good social skills, but really DON'T!
I can "read" emotions ok, even if maybe not as well as I should.
I CAN multitask. It is harder now than it was, but I still can do the type of thing you talk about.
I USUALLY don't seem anxious, but sometimes people think I go WAY overboard.
I try to avoid talking about my interests, but sometimes I can REALLY RAMBLE! You could ask any of my classmates what my hobbies were, and they could tell you.

If you met me in an IEP environment, like you described, you would probably see me at about my best.

Just as you will be better better looking, better socially, more intelligent, more productive, and generally happier than some people. Just wnated to point out it works both ways as wl.


Also, what do you mean by laughing at other's misfortune. Like as in the funniest home videos type deal? (I never understood humor in someone hurting themselves)

Or just being a grade a dick?

You've just justified my reasons for feeling inferior.
I've spent time with him at lunch every school day for two weeks and we've either sat on the stairs or gone outside. I spent time with him and one of his other friends this weekend. Now I've seen him in an IEP environment, a busier and more crowded part of the school, outside the school, in a home environment (although it was his dad's house, where he goes every other weekend [he lives with his mom]), and we've walked around the neighbourhood.

Last edited by DJRnold on 28 Sep 2008, 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pain: He'd laugh if someone hurt themselves - unless it was a severe injury.
Misfortune: Another friend of mine was doing work on a computer in the resource room, and he was sitting next to them and he kept talking to them. When my other friend talked back (mostly to complain about not being able to work with him talking), she got in trouble, but he didn't, and he laughed at her.

Last edited by DJRnold on 29 Sep 2008, 3:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

I know this is redundant but... don't compare yourself to him, and don't call yourself "ret*d". He may have strengths in some areas and you may even have strengths in areas where he doesn't.

By not basing your happiness on whether someone's better at something than you. Nobody who does that will ever actually be really happy anyway.

You've probably also got the common reasoning-flaw of seeing other people's strengths in areas you're weak at, but not vice-versa. I grew up with the same reasoning problem, and thus never viewed myself as talented (even though apparently lots of people around me did) because everyone else (or nearly everyone else) seemed better at understanding language, better at social things, better at some kind of shared hidden understanding that people seem to have, better at having a clue what to do in any given situation, better at things like strength, agility, and flexibility (at least the sort that is measured by tests, I had no clue how agile or flexible I had to be to do the things I did outside the classroom, and I'll give you a couple hints there -- I never once fell out of a tree, I walked on fences and other precarious places without ever falling there either, and I am diagnosed with hypermobility which by definition means being more flexible than average to the point it's considered pathological... and all that should give you a clue how much I could miss about myself), better at just about anything I could think of.

Why?

Well... my talents were just there, in the background, I didn't have to think about them, and thus I didn't see them. I still think other people's estimates of my talents were overblown at times, but now I believe that based on what I actually know about my strengths and weaknesses within those areas, not based on the idea that I just don't have talents to speak of because everywhere I look there's someone better at something than I am.

And... even in my areas of talent there are people way better at them than me. Some of my areas of talent are only impressive when you're a child, unless you gain more of them they're average or even below-average in an adult. And I've also discovered talents I never knew I had -- I'd never baked anything in my life, but the first time I made a tea ring (which is also the first time I baked) it came out not only good, in others' estimation, but excellent. I have no idea where that one came from at all, but it didn't show up until I was about 25. Some things I was good at as a child, like some areas of math, I am no longer any better at than anyone else. Some things I totally stank at as a child, like writing, I suddenly acquired in adolescence or adulthood.

And that's cool, having talents is a good thing, but it's not something to base your happiness on. If you have a physical talent, like I did, climbing trees... I used to think I couldn't live without it, now I can't do it due to joint problems (a consequence of the same hypermobility that made it easy for me to stick my foot nearly over my head to find the next branch), a movement disorder, and chronic illness. I barely miss it, because I already had the experience, so it's there already, I don't need to do it over and over again, and I have other things to do -- I'd never have believed I wouldn't miss it that much, but I don't, it'd be fun but it's not earth-shattering not to be able to do it. That sort of thing can be gone instantly, due to illness, injury, whatever. If you have a cognitive talent... you could get a brain injury or all kinds of other things, even just your normal process of brain maturation can make you lose those (I lost a whole ton of them during puberty, although I gained others, and my brother lost his photographic memory at puberty).

Talents are temporary things, and they can be fun to use, but you shouldn't base your sense of self-worth on them, because they could vanish at any time with no warning. They're too fleeting, it's like when women base their self-worth on their figure and then middle-aged metabolism kicks in and they flip out.

It's the old Groucho Marx joke, "I wouldn't join a club that would have me as a member."
You chose who you compare yourself to. Out of six billion people, why him?

If I were there, I would be as facinated as you are in trying to figuring him out. That's probably not good, but he sounds interesting. What could that 20-year-old brain mean if not IQ? Also, he might be able to teach you something. Maybe he can clue you in on some social issue that you don't get, or just by watching him.

He's probably just good at evading the rough spots. That is a skill you need to learn to avoid looking like a bully magnet. On the other hand, it takes a lot of energy and it's stressful. Hanging out with trustworthy people who don't force you to fake it (like here) is so liberating.

That's one method. Divert everyone's attention...

If you are so unhappy with yourself, why don't you start working on you want to get better at. You can use your new friend as a role model, maybe he can give you tips about how to read other people, etc. There are also books out there for aspies to read that help them cope with their condition.


It is possible this kid learned those things as he got older. Sounds like he was diagnosed at a young age because he doesn't know which autism he has so maybe his parents taught him those skills. Kids can go from autism to AS. I have heard about people being diagnosed with autism but then be diagnosed later in life with AS because they have communication skills now, self help skills, etc. despite the criteria saying there is no speech delay, self help skills delay, cognitive delay and curiosity about their environment.

Last edited by Spokane_Girl on 28 Sep 2008, 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't know you well enough to voice an opinion of YOU, but I have seen MANY that seemed intelligent, etc... I find that THEY have other problems. Sometimes, they are STUPID in some areas. A woman at work SERIOUSLY thinks I must use 100% of my brain because I am "SO SMART"! I keep asking her not to talk like that, etc... I SERIOUSLY think she believes that.

I have known people that seem HAPPY, and found they are MISERABLE! I make a LOT of money, but have a lot of debt. One person I knew was FAR better off than I was financially, socially, and with his family, and he thought *I* was better off!! !!

So try to befriend him. BE NICE! Maybe you will BOTH end up the better for it. Work to better yourself, and don't think about how much better you perceive them to be.