I tend to stray away from the 'herd'...

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I noticed one thing about myself. I will usually become isolated from others, if there are no barriers to keep me in the 'herd'. OK, let me explain. The only time I was never isolated, (don't get me wrong, I only had a few friends) was at school. Why? Because the structure of school placed me in a situation where interacting with others was natural. What I mean is, at school everyone wore the same uniform. Everyone did the same subjects, and had the same school time table...

This structure placed me amongst the 'herd' and I couldn't stray away. However when that structure of school was not there ie. on weekends I became isolated again, and I found it easier to be on my own. I even avoided going out with friends who I made at school because the structure was non existent. This has always been my natural tendency...

I hope no one finds my analogy ridiculous, it's the only way I could put my situation into words.

Anyone else have these tendencies? And I am especially interested in your behaviour outside of school or work etc. as compared to in it.

This may not be related, I don't know, but structured environments where everyone has a specific official role are always much easier to me than environments where I have to figure and establish my place in the group and relations myself.

I agree. Structured environments where everyone has a specific job are much easier. Duh...there's no grey area about what we are supposed to do. It's when we don't know what the hell to do that the problems start. I think we are solitary by nature as well. So, we tend to naturally withdraw when we are alone or don't have a specific role.

At work, I tend to go in, go around check on everyone, and then retreat to my office until forced to socialise again. I don't usually do things after work hours that aren't work related with my coworkers. I have one really good friend at work that we sometimes call each other for not work related things during not work hours. I hate running into coworkers randomly in public. I never know what to say or do. I hate running into the students that I work with and their parents outside of work. I never know how to small talk. Big surprise, huh?

I find it hard to maintain casual relationships past the work environment, for example when I leave a job and a coworker tries to continue to socialise with me, I can't do that. I have one coworker that checks in with me occasionally from a job that I had 3 years ago and I never know what to say.

Now, my friends from school that were truly good friends, I've managed to maintain relationships with. But it sometimes makes for lonely times because I can't socialise well. My husband wishes we had a couple friend to do things with, but I don't know how to do that. What premise do you base these relationships on? How do you maintain these things? He wants someone to play cards with, go to the movies with, go to concerts with, etc. I feel like it would be a contrived situation that I would probably be able to do with him at the time, but then how do behave when the wife calls you out of the blue to go shop or go to a movie? I wouldn't know what to do. I would be in panic!

I feel like the OP. It's silly, but it's real.

You describe it well. I too have these tendencies.

Highly structured environments can feel relatively comfortable, when I mostly know what the expectations are. When there is a lack of structure, such as during breaks or social gatherings, I'm clueless and that's never changed.

During school breaks I'd find some corner to hide out alone. Those I worked with/near while the structure was in place would suddenly slip away. That's why I could not maintain any contacts. It's like I'm not as real to them as others are and they are not as real to me as my interests are.

My behaviour outside the school/work environment was quite structured, but it was self-imposed (although not by conscious choice). When interacting with others one-to-one, I adhere to a structure in my own mind I developed and convey behavioral rigidity. With family, I can be more random.

Definitely!

I found I functioned much better if I felt I was being useful and helping others, but not in a cliquish way, especially at High School.

I also felt happy when teachers assigned me the role of mentoring other students: it gave me a purpose. I also gained a lot of respect by imparting my knowledge in this way. This made me more eager to learn and people treated me better. It became like a "snowball-effect". I was given nicknames by the other kids such as "the oracle" or "brains" which boosted my ego, my grades so therefore boosted the other kids' grades.

I knew that the "herd" was there and observed the herd from a distance or the physical environment. If we were on a school trip and crossing the road I might say (abruptly): "There's a car coming." If I hadn't said that and nattered away like the others, we'd have all become human pancakes. There is an advantage in becoming not too buried in the social activities of the herd: if there is danger in the physical environment, you can warn your friends about it in good time so that they can get out of the way.

The problem at school came when we were told to get into groups. I didn't know how to get into groups (cliques). I only knew how to perform a task to a specific set of rules or help one person at a time. I think that my "herding instinct" is impaired. I don't think that I was ever met to herd up with anyone, just watch and wait to be "consulted" or help others in distress.

At that school there were clear codes of conduct regarding bullying and strong support systems in place. That school almost felt like an ecosystem at times. Sometimes I was alone socially, but I didn't feel alone because I was helping and encouraging others.

I've also used to like working in peaceful, non crowded laboratories on a specific assignment. The rules of how to behave were clearly written on the door and had clear pictorial ideograms beside them to emphasise the message. What could be more obvious than a symbol of a man wearing goggles for the instruction "Wear goggles". In Chemistry it was brilliant. Warnings such as "irritant", "corrosive" or "biohazard" were always accompanied by clear internationally recognised symbols. I knew exactly what the chemical was and how to deal with it by reading the shorthand and symbols printed on the side of the jar or vessel.

There was no ambiguity at all in Chemistry: it was a step by step structured environment with strict protocols and contingency plans if things did go wrong (risk assessments). Sometimes people were assigned specific roles like "bunsen burner watcher", "data recorder" or "washer upper".

In school, I often isolated myself. Too much people, too much noise, too close to each other and no way to get out. (Except calling in sick which I did a lot.) I'd not talk much, be somewhere and stare into space... I'd even stand somewhere far away, being passive just to draw the line between them and me. Often, I also just couldn't respond or react.

But as soon as I have free-time I love being together with people, being the centre of attention, fussing over other people. I try to take part in everything.

This is a change of behaviour that has been very obvious to my friends.

I looked spacy, quiet, 'not there', different and isolated in school, not taking part in interaction even when forced.

During my free-time, I was/am lively, metaphorically hanging on everyone's shoulder, being funny and noisy and easily sullen when people didn't want to interact.

I cannot function when I am forced to be led around as I was in school. Because I cannot follow. I cannot be part of the group, I cannot interact on another's terms. It's partly autism (the inability), but I also hate (that's not even strong enough to express how I feel) having to follow.

I need to lead myself. Because then I can model my environment, make decisions according to what I need to function.

I have the 'worst kind' of job for an ASD/ADHD person - but only in that kind of job I actually am able to do good! I have to structure things for myself and others, make many decisions, have to do my work despite that people around me have an ambivalent attitude/position that cannot refer to.

I think they are definately related Greentea. It seems we both have the same problem.

all the relationships i have developed later in life are founded upon function, purpose and special interests/work. i do not just have people in my life for social reasons. that is completely weird to me. unfathomable why any person would veiw other people in that fasion.

no structure re my special interests = no friends.

i do 12 step prgrams. i have made some friends there of sorts. but the reason it works for me is that it is PURELY STRUCTURED in terms of intent, purpose, the way to relate with eachother, the functions we serve for each other. i know if i did not have this, i would be back to first half of my life out of school. (that meant NO-ONE, and going for days and days without taking to people except for a shopkeeper. )

also - even there i am odd and an outsider, highly individualised in how i am compared to others.
the herd is not my thing.

Last edited by millie on 10 Jan 2009, 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I hate "the herd" so of course I doXD

For me: structure is essential in my life but I like to create my own structure. I find I dont like when other people create that structure for me. No matter what situation: structured or not I always seem to be isolated from the pack so I perfer to structure my own life the way I want it. As I gradually got older, had more freedoms, was not restricted to sticking with my classmates, I liked things better. Im in college now, when I look back on high school, I cant go back, I like how I determine what to do with my own time. Im glad I dont have to be surrounded by tons of people I dont wanna see. Now, I have friendships that mean a lot more because Im no longer restricted towards having to always be around everyone else. I made those better connections with the few people I ended hanging around.

I was never good at coping with the herd or fitting in. I'm not good at dealing with the stress of not coping with the herd or fitting in either. That's why I would rather be alone or with just one other person.

Count me in. Structured situations in which the tasks are clearly defined and I am helping people are much easier for me than any other group situation.

The image of "straying from the herd" really speaks to me. With some significant exceptions, I generally don't like where most groups end up and often find myself standing on my own. What generally happens is one of the following:

1. I start to feel uncomfortable with (and in danger of being subsumed by) the "groupthink" and I end up needing to find my individuality again.
2. My senses get overwhelmed. 'Nuff said.
3. Something happens in the group that is unjust, and I'm usually the only person jumping up and down saying, "Look, look, this is terrible! We have to do something about this!" Everyone else just shrugs and says, "What can you do? That's life." At that point, I'm outta there.

Many years ago, an online friend of mine summed it up by saying, "We can't go with the flow! Look where the flow is going!!"

At High School I used to casually eavesdrop on the "herd".

Most of the boys were talking about football (soccer). Soccer could be seen as a kind of modern day group hunting activity. Wind back the clock 10,000 years or so and they'd be talking about their recent mammoth hunting expedition. They'd be talking about their favourite mammoth hunters/heroes and aspiring to be like their favourite hunters especially the lead ones (the forwards).

The only "herd" or team type of activity I could join in with any success was (field) hockey. Lots of members of my family have liked and played hockey. I think that's because the focus is on the ball, you only have to glance up occasionally to pass to someone else. Because of the position the stick puts you in: the default position for your face is looking at the turf. Hence, the communication in hockey is inherently more auditory because facial expressions can't be read as easily if all the player's faces are angled downwards.

My family always took part sports that required few players or were solo competitive such as: racket sports, swimming, bike riding, horseriding, solo athletics...
I think that these would be more like solo or pair "hunting" kinds of activities.
We didn't do the sync up with a soccer team face to face kind of thing at all and we're puzzled by how whole groups of people can coordinate themselves like that.

They practice, and have patterns memorized IIRC (for some of the higher leagues and all that). That and learning stuff

I agree with the OP and this post:

Even at school, though, I dont really care about going with the herd and being like everyone else but I do need to interact with them sometimes because of how it's all structured.

Yeah, I can relate to what you're saying. It was like that in school, and the last time I really had a feeling to belong, was in the army. I was in the artillery, and we worked most of the time in the field. In order to make the battery work, we all had to pull in the same direction. We also stayed together when we were off duty, out getting drunk together and really took care of eachother. It was one for all and all for one.
Seems to me that everybody was treated with respect and felt that they belonged and was an important member on the team. Sometimes I miss that time. Sometimes it feels like this at work, but there's also quite a bit of stress. When I'm not working, my organizing and social skills are just about zero.