Really confused since WAIS III profile seems contradictory!

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Hi everyone,

This is my first post so be gentle.

I am currently in the process of being assessed for AS/ HFA, by none other than Simon Baron-Cohen. One of the things that eventually led me to realise that i may by aspergic as opposed to just being very socially shy/ tactless/ perfectioism to point of wanting everything to not change was my diagnosis of a specific learning difficulty ( essentially dyslexia) last year.

Anyway. As part of my diagnosis for a SpLD they carried out the WAIS III performance index on me; for those who have done WAIS, this is the symbol search and digit-symbol coding tests. In this i scored in the 99th percentile with my symbol search score being particulalry high.

The problem i'm having is that from reading the forums, such as this one, processing speed tends to be the one that is very low in ASD individuals. Could i have something else altogether? Orl is this an example of ASD affecting different people differently?

many thanks

okey,

having just read through the post myself. i think i may sounded a bit arrogant with the post, possibly not helped by my nickname.

But really i'm just worried that this particular index may rule out ans ASD diagnosis and the pyscologist will just tell me that i wasn;t bought up properly by my parents or i have other deep-seeded issues!

It doesn't mean a thing, it is just a correlation and nothing more, just like temperature and icecream sales are related, and there will always be people who buy icecream in the coldest parts of winter, and people who want coffee in the hottest times of summer.

People are individuals. I have a nonverbal learning disability, but my Block Design subtest score was higher than expected for people with NLD, and I scored the maximum possible for the Coding subtest. Both of those subtests are supposed to be difficult for those with NLD. I also tested as moderately impaired for auditory memory, which is supposed to be an area of strength in NLD (my attention problems sunk me). I have the diagnosis anyway, because overall I have impairments and strengths in the expected areas for NLD.

A single score does not mean that you do or do not have a condition. You have to look at the whole picture. And for AS, IQ test scores don't have much to do with the diagnosis anyway, except that people with AS TEND to have uneven profiles (but it's not diagnostic either way).

Sorry for the rather cryptic title, but the character limit wouldn't let me ramble! My own intellectual and/or cognitive "profile" has plenty of its own peaks and valleys, but they do not always fall in line - at least according to the DSM-IV.

My verbal IQ most definitely kicks the crap out of my performance, uh, performance! Still there are some subtests in both of those sections that appear to be outliers themselves. Apparently, NLD'ers have great memories. Uhh...no. Likewise with an alleged problem with the abstract. I LOVE LOVE LOVE math!! ! Not only that (and these are not mutually exclusive if you ask me!) I am very literal. Experience has, yes, taught me to expect that I will encounter what I privately call lazy language: "it's over there behind the thing!" - so, at least these days, I'm not all "Rainman during a fire alarm" when I get fuddled with that kind of environment. BUT - nor will I be able to do what you asked! That's called faking it. When you know there's an "uh oh" in the room - but you likewise know that this is where your acting skill must come in lest you WANT (God forbid, right!) to be found out!, our (at least my) own short-term self-preservation becomes my long-term demise.

Are we supposed to "shut off" our learned coping mechanisms during IQ tests? I'm guessing not, but still. Why should my own hard work and/or pain lead to MISSING a diagnosis just because I happen to do well on the abstract (but finite and bounded!! !! !!) test whereby you reproduce larger geometric forms from smaller (usually triangular) pieces? Come on!! Every non-curved shape is ultimately broken down to some repositioning of the myriad combinations and permutations of composite shapes that are composed from THE basic, non-curved, 3-sided, two-dimensional shape - the triangle!

Block design is nothing but atomic and/or chemical theory made abstract, or in this case "clinical". The verbal "part" of my brain is VERY engaged during this subtest!! !! !! !! !! ! It allows me to label what I'm doing and from and with what I am doing it!

This is also why I failed so miserably on the "stroop" part of the WAIS/WISC. In fact, the very problem this subtest is designed to highlight is called the "stroop effect". This is where the test-taker is tasked to look at a series of words, and name the color of the INK in which each one is written. The problem is that the very words are color names themselves and, you guessed it, they do NOT coincide or match - obviously quite by design. So, for example, the word "RED" may be written in green ink. I am supposed to say "green" in response to that item. You're supposed to do this as quickly as you can through a series of similarly confounded words.

I...uh....*sucked* at this. I mean I was processing some of these individual items for literally 2 or 3 silent seconds, and it was like I was going to the bathroom for the first time in 2 weeks trying to spit out the name of the color of the ink instead of what color the word actually said. Absolute torture!

Now imagine living and learning and working with a society that doestn't "get" why the hell that's so hard. Imagine trying to explain that you NEED everything explained. People don't believe you - especially when you have such a precocious vocabulary (okay, I'm 37, it's not precocious anymore!) and an undeniably nerdy countenance.

I don't like being called a liar. Or lazy. Or being told to try harder. Nah. Not a fan.

Yet - who here isn't right this very second shaking his head, maybe crying, or even pounding the computer equipment out of sheer frustration that this situation ever exists! Okay, if not now, or ever even so tangibly, then at least who cannot relate? "But, you don't look/sound stupid". Grrrrrrrr!! !!

What do I do??

-stan

I performed very high on coding on the WAIS. I also did poorly on the math portion of the IQ test. I still received my AS dx. All people are different and not all autistics are alike.

Don't worry about it! There's nothing that says anybody with an IQ over 70ish can't be diagnosed Asperger's (<70-80 would cause cognitive delay and a classic autism diagnosis).

AS isn't a specific learning disability, really; it's a grouping of traits, and it can't actually be detected on an IQ test. I'd be more likely to support an AS diagnosis in the presence of an unusually high gap between high and low sub-scores, though, because that is very common on the spectrum--but it is not diagnostic and not necessarily present.

Besides, you want the docs to get the right diagnosis, right? So do your best whenever they test you, mention any coping skills that might be covering for deficits, and tell them whatever you can think of that might be relevant.

Sorry. Yes, it was in fact N(V)LD to which I was referring.

-stan

You may or may not have NVLD, but in my experience many Aspies seem to have it. I actually don't--which makes me odd for an Aspie--but I'm near the diagnostic borderline for NVLD, as I think most of us who are not also diagnosable NVLD are.

Hey, thanks for the continuing exchange. According to some folks I've been speaking with lately, N(V)LD is not all that uncommon among folks with Hydrocephalus. I had my first VP shunt placed as an infant, and replaced 4 or so years later (mid-70's). Because of headaches I've been having lately, and an apparent question as to whether there is some malfunction with my shunt (questionable flow in one direction), I sought some answers at a hydro site somewhere else on the web.

This is an ongoing struggle and question for me, and only in the past couple of years (after many many many active and questioning years and oodles of specialists and meds and other rx's), has some definitive clarity come to WHY.

Still seeking that black and white clarity. Why don't I see what I'm not looking for. Why can I not remember how to get to the mall a mile away from my house. Why do I still not know the name of that co-worker even though we've both been here (there, former job) for four years? Why does THE littlest pressure cause me to fold and fumble and freak. Why do I never make it to the street that is my at the "fourth set of lights" , when in fact - as I learned during a subsequent visit when my friend picked ME up, it was the 5th. A blinking yellow COUNTS as "a light"! ! Why do I have to continue to struggle with mishaps such as the one I had with a former summer boss at a kids camp, who had directed all staff not to use the refrigerator outside of the nurse's station, and who thought I was being a smart ass because I thought I could still use the freezer compartment on top???

And so on.