About the existence or inexistence of Asperger Syndrome

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First, I not have a particular dog in this fight (if AS exists or not). I have some doubts about the real existence of AS only because I have doubts about the psychiatric diagnosis in general (and, although AS is, in theory, a neurological condition, in practice there is a psychological condition).

I don’t have any official diagnosis in anything (the only "diagnosis" that my pscychologist made, 10 years ago, was "“you intellectualize too much and hide your emotions”). If I will be diagnosed with something, much probably will be with Schizoid PD (I have some repetitive behaviours, but I think that not at a clinically relevant level).

My opinion about autism/asperger: I think that autism exists, but perhaps it is more like being old or youg than like being man or woman – probably there is not a clear-cut line between “autisitic” and “non-autistic”, but a continuum between the two conditions. Then, I do not believe that Autism and/or Asperger Syndrome are “social constructions”, but I suspect that the location of the line between ASD and “normality” is a “social construction”.

Now, why many people believe that AS does not exist? My theory:

In first place, there is a large and old intellectual tradition of considering that (at least some) mental problems are simply a label that society gives to “different” individuals, and that the people that are considered with having a “problem” in some social context could be considered “well” in another social context. In more extreme formulations, they say that it is the society who has a “disease” and the people labeled with “mental problems” could be the people who are really sane.

If you research a bit, it is easy to find theories of this kind about schizophrenia, schizoid PD, ADHD, ODD, etc. For example, the internet is full of articles saying that ADHD is the natural behaviour of boys and that are the boys-without-ADHD who have a problem. “AS negationism” is simply more a chapter in that tradition.

But, in the case of AS, there are additional factors that contribute to that:

- the newspaper articles calling AS the “geek syndrome”

- the researchers (like Michael Fitzerald) who diagnose almost all famous scientists, intellectuals and writers as having AS

- the people who argue “AS is not a disease nor a disability, it is a difference”

- the DSM diagnosis criteria, who, if it is read outside of the context, could give the ideia that people with AS don’t have any problem beside social adaptation

All of these creates in some people the idea that “Asperger Syndrome” is simply a new name for “introvert, intellectual and non-conformist person”.

A final point: in these forum, it is acceptable to say “AS is a difference, not a disabilitie” (many – most? – members disagree, but it is a thing that can be said without creating a scandal). However, if someone says “AS does not exist”, he is immediately considered a troll*. But what is the difference between “AS is a difference, not a disabilitie” and “AS does not exist”? These are only two ways of, using different words, saying basically the same thing.

*EDIT: after posting this, I read a personal message about that, and I admit that could be a case to consider some statemente of junior1 (it is about him that I am talking, of course) offensive.

Last edited by TPE2 on 12 Mar 2009, 9:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

well in my opinion i do thing A.S does exist, i mean it has been scientifically proven that there are different chemicals at work in the minds of people with A.S (its something like a lack or an increase of one chemical im not entirely sure)
the term A.S is a difference not a disibility, well its kind f like saying we recognise that its there its something but its not enough to classify it as a full blown disibiity, an illness yes but a disibility no.
i disagree with the statement entirely though and think it probebly is a disibility, because it stops or limits participation in the people effected normal everyday activities such as working for example.

It is just an unnecessary label. I suppose it sound better than saying, "I'm autistic", although that is what I tell people. Autism should stay labeled as high or low functioning. Most people diagnosed with AS can function in society, even if it is oddly. Why not just group them with HFA?

^ unnecessary label?

i had 45 years without the unnecessary label.

i have had 6 months with it.

after a lifetime of struggling with my differences, i prefer the label.

Careful, a thread got locked because someone dare bring this subject up. Oh - you saw that too? Be aware that you may well receive personal abuse from the herd if you maintain this line of enquiry too long.

Sketch, the chemical processes of NO TWO PEOPLE are absolutely identical. It doesn't mean that their is a 'disorder' or 'syndrome' at work. It is variety, which is perfectly normal.

How do we know that one brain is 'lacking' a chemical, maybe the other one 'has too much' of it? OK, we use an average. But show me Mr or Mrs Average? They don't exist and if they did, they'd probably hate themselves for their mediocrity!

Everybody is different to the average in some way. Whether a difference is deemed worthy of comment, or a label is...wait for it..... a social construct.

Experiences differ. We are all different? I had 40 years without the label, 6 years with. At first it felt better. After a while it felt worse than before. For a year I've been doubting that label and I'm feeling better than ever. I'm apparently not the only one whose going through this cycle, too.

I refuse to ignore my own experience to fit in with what *any* herd says I should be feeling. That's what got me into this mess in the first place!

Last edited by ManErg on 12 Mar 2009, 10:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

It does exist. Based on the scientific proof, there's no denying that. However, any way you slice it, you're still just "different". Giving your condition a name & backing it with proof doesn't cause any leniency among 99% of people who expect you to be normal. Knowing whether you have aspergers or not is irrelevant since you still have to fight the same battle either way.

I am definitely very different from most people. I am much younger in some ways, and older in others. AS describes me well, and I do believe that it should be merged with hfa diagnosis as AS is viewed differently than it should be

how much chocolate-mix powder do you add to a glass of milk before it officially becomes "chocolate milk"? at what point? artificial construct. that's what people do. they categorize, they have to. it's their nature.

I think AS can absolutely be the same as classical autism except that you can't have a cognitive delay or a language delay. And only few people claim that classical autism doesn't exit.

Beyond that symptoms that are only due to the ASD (and not MR or additional disorders) are pretty much the same.

You have those young kids with classical who ignore most people and most of anything and you have the same in hf AS. You have those kids with classical and AS that are only toilette trained in their teens or

The outcome in AS may be different usually, but maybe not - it's frequently reported that those with AS make as little improvements as those with classical.

So if you got two kids (one with AS and one with HFA/classical) starting out at the same level they probably will not differ much in regards to their autism traits as adults.

The issue should not be so much with the label itself but what the label get you. For some people, the label helps them get the assistance they need to survive in the NT world. For other people, the label actually hurts them. This will be true though for any label and it will be person dependent.

Sure, people who didn't grow up with AS may question if it is a real thing.
We who actually have it KNOW that we were always different. It is NOT just a personality difference. We are not just normal people who are a bit geeky. We do tend to like the sciences and have interests that are considered geeky and eccentric. But we have many symptoms that make us very different from the neurotypical people. We have trouble with many physical and social situations. We have trouble understanding verbal cues that most anyone else would easily understand. We have a diffuculty with everday life that average people don't comprehend. Aspies that grew up without any knowledge of the condition but knowing that something is wrong have had it especially hard. Our families know we are different because they watched us grow up and could see the unusual behaviors. Unless you have had plenty of first hand experience with AS you should not judge and should never assume that it is just a made up thing.

I agree with you millie. I have had 43 years without the label. And about one month with. I am glad to know why I am this person.

Being different is not the same as having a condition called "Aspergers".

I'm the one who started the "Aspergers is not real" thread that was recently banned.

I've taken some interest in psychology, and the more one learns about it the more one can see that psychologists and psychiatrists have little real idea what they are doing.

There's a course on psychology available from "The Teaching Company" This is a company that records college lectures by major college professors.

I was just listening to it today, and the "mental illnesses are social constructs made up by committee votes of psychiatrist" thing came up again right in the lecture.



Here's the program:


http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescL ... px?cid=660



The professor, Robinson, has a bio that can be found here http://www.teach12.com/storex/professor.aspx?ID=17

He talked about a famous study where some psychologists went undercover, so to speak, and had themselves entered into to a mental institution complaining about hearing voices or depression or whatever.

Once they were committed, they no longer acted unwell, they acted like their normal selves, yet the institution was unable to recognize that they were mentally healthy. Anything they did was linked, in the minds of the staff, to them being crazy or mentally unwell.

You can find the study here:

http://psychrights.org/articles/Rosenham.htm



Here's frightening quote from the study:






In the Great Ideas of Psychology lecture Professor Robinson makes it clear that he has no intention of panning the community that creates these labels, and feels they mean well or are doing their best, but states and I'm transcribing this quick excerpt:



He goes on to say that he is not trying to be controversial and that:



edited for spelling

The thread was not banned, the thread was locked because according to the definition of 'troll'

(i.e.)troll:
Posting derogatory messages about sensitive subjects on newsgroups and chat rooms to bait users into responding.

and by the rules:

3. Other inappropriate content and behavior prohibited on Wrong Planet:
This also includes discussion of locked topics, discussion of banned members and why they were banned and anything else that purposely causes conflict with other members.

Your sentence above was enough to ban you immediately, Junior1, and judging from the PMs and emails the mods have received on your behaviour in your short stay on WP I am certain you might soon know what a banning is.

I love a good dangling participle!

Merle

Merle

Watch these kids with AS, and then say whether they are outliers in regards to social behaviour or not (and whether they need a label or not):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJGfQ-0cAh4[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfVl0uYzVZE[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGOe2StXpCY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVdYDWx5kbs[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKVBvNVozD4[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLp8oh6hUTk[/youtube]

Oh no, Merle, you mentioned the locked topic too in your reply to my sentence! Quick, hide before they catch you!! !