Church and other worship experiences

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Wow, another pastor! How cool!

I tend to like Taize because it repeats and there is time for silence. Overall, I tend to like liturgical worship services because they tend to be highly structured and ritualized. I grew up in evangelical and charismatic churches that had none of those and they drove me crazy.

When I went to seminary and came in contact with liturgical worship, it was as if I had come home.

We should talk more. I'd love to share stories about Aspergers and the ministry.

Dennis
Minneapolis, MN

I'd like to third Taize.

Another spritual practice I resonate with is lectio divina, where a reader of scripture reads a passage, picks one detail to focus on, and then meditates on that detail. It does not necessarily have to be about "the point" of the passage, but just how God speaks to an individual heart through a particular, perhaps "unimportant" detail.

Attended a Quaker meeting a while ago and loved it. Found it incredibly healing to be allowed to be in a roomful of people almost glowing with the presence of God, and not expected to speak or "perform." But silence of all kinds is good.

But I'm nearly allergic to "passing the peace." It makes me feel far from peaceful!

I like to hear a good sermon, one from a preacher that really knows what he is talking about.

I was raised Catholic but I have explored other Christian denominations . . . Personally, I prefer the formality of liturgical worship. I don't have the sensory issues other individuals have so being in a church environment generally doesn't cause problems. However, several other people raised the issue of noisy children being distracting and I agree. I also don't like it when children are allowed to run around the church. One, I wasn't raised that way, and two, some of us are not as steady on our feet as others. I get real nervous when I am in any kind of setting where children are running loose (unless it is a playground designed for that purpose). The reason is I am not well coordinated, and a small child dashing in front of me is likely to make me lose my balance. PARENTS -- PLEASE TAKE NOTE: Seniors with poor eyesight and poor coordination are especially vulnerable to falls, they can't see your little ones until it is almost too late. And a fall could mean a broken hip and all that implies.

My other concern is not so much the service itself, but with the general relationship of church to society. There are churches which tend to be socially isolating. Some are very open about it and others not. For some people on the spectrum this might be a good thing; for others, it may only increase their natural tendency to withdraw and thus handicap them even more when it comes to functioning out in the world. And, paradoxically, there are some people who are probably better off not going to church. They are like alcoholics in a bar, this is not a good environment for them. I believe people on the spectrum are more at risk for becoming addicted to religion (the so-called fanatics), and therefore may need some special handling. Unfortunately the church as a whole seems to be in denial about this problem.

Having been raised in a large family of aspies, and being in the process of watching the (large) next generation come up, it makes me sad to see that so many would prefer to have children so restricted in a worship service.

It makes more sense to me to keep main group services shorter, so as to serve young attention spans, and then split up into smaller groups (some age sorted, some not) where younger participants can be more properly involved without impinging on the experiences of others.

I hate the thought of making the kids go to the back. It doesn't make any sense, from their perspective; church isn't likely to be very engaging for them to start with, and such an arrangement would likely exacerbate the situation.



I think it is also very important, though perhaps this is obvious, that the tone of the organization be such that questioning is accepted or even welcomed, and individuals are really cared about. When I was younger, I was repeatedly thrown out of scripture study classes for asking too many questions or having the wrong attitude.

I was confrontational, but my desire to understand was genuine and intense. In retrospect, my intense questioning was in part an attempt to understand other fairly terrible things that were happening or had happened in my life; due to the nature of my upbringing, church seemed essential as a part of understanding anything. If those in charge had had the understanding or gone to the trouble to consider the cause of my actions, it might have been actually useful rather than constantly alienating.

I should add that at the time I was a teenager, and would generally consider it the duty of ecclesiastical leaders to do a better job in this regard.



This looks very good to me.

Hey, thanks for the offer. I've long admired Mennonites for the fact that they seem to create some really functional communities, which I think is really important. . . and also for the fact that they seem, as communities, to be far less hypocritical than some other Christian groups, in terms of really looking after the poor and commitment to nonviolence. Also, Michael Faraday practiced an Anababtist sect, and Michael Faraday is The Jam.

I have two big questions. First, I know that some branches of the faith reject certain forms of technology; could you tell me, what is the theological basis for this? (this is another thing I think works well- caution in acceptance of new technology seems wise to me. .. as much as I am a bit addicted to some of it. . )


Second, it's hard for me to even consider the Mennonite faith as a path for myself because it seems that to do so I'd have to reject the strong belief I hold that men and women are equal (though not identical) in value, ability, and leadership potential.

Having been raised in the Mormon faith, which advances the "different, but equal" idea (Utah was actually the first territory to give women the vote. . . and Mormons actually have a female diety they're never allowed to talk about. .. ) I understand how hard it can be to see sexism when one is on the inside of such a doctrine. . . unfortunately, when one stands back a bit, it's hard not to see.

For instance, the reference for veiling that you listed, from Corinthians, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I first encountered it when I was a young teenager. .. the way I read it then was as a clear implication that women are as far below men as men below God. . (men should have short hair, less covering, as befits their station--because they are the glory of god; women should have long hair and a covering, as befits theirs, merely being the glory of men.) I was pretty pissed off. .. it made me want to cut my hair.

I'm not sure how it works with the Mennonites, exactly, but I know that in most other traditionally patriarichal forms of Christianity, there are a lot of more subtle institutional things that imply inferiority of women.

What is your take on this?

my aunt says a waste of time is "not working when the sun is out".
i dont quite agree with that.

you are right i should have put "either one" there.

as to our moral compass. our compass is naturaaly turned wrong. the bible states that WE must WANT to have our "compass changed. God is not going to beat us over the head about it. until we die that is. too often our morality as aspies is way off line.

woah there i didnt tell you the whole story yet about a womans role. we believe that the older women have the obligation to teach the younger women. my mom has a problem of speaking to freely in sunday school when in with the men and God convicted her of it. she is trying but it is very hard for her to control her tongue. hmmm. for that matter its hard for all the ladies my family! and i have 5 aunts as well.

btw the idea that men and women are equal was given to us by the world. why are we as christians trying to accept the worlds principles?

I'm not a practising member of any church or religion, though I've been to church services and buddhist events a fair amount. I just call myself spiritual, I believe in a 'higher being' (hate to use particular words)... should sum it up.

I enjoy small groups where you can have a real conversation with people about theology and actually discuss things in-depth and have debates without people getting upset or saying "Well this must true because the bible says it here!". I like it when you can question aspects of faith and of creation and of whatever else without people getting stupid about it or buring their heads in the sand. And where you can get to know and trust people and just revel in being close to that 'higher energy' and 'love' and whatever you want to call it.

I also enjoy quiet meditation of the Buddhist sort, quieting the mind as such. I find this incredibly calming as an Aspie as I'm always craving a moment or two where I can just let my gaze shift and my mind wander and lose focus and just sit and stare for a while, not thinking or moving, feeling time move outside me. Meditation takes this to a different level and it's a great feeling, often followed by interesting insights, so I do very much enjoy it!!

Pleased to meet you, pastor jeff. I think an open environment for worship is essential. Not to mention a few open minds. Keep kids in for worship, then pray for them and send them to their own classrooms with their own lessons. I would love to compare notes with you about being an aspie believer, not to mention your approach when it comes to ministry or pastoring. I am currently not in church, and have had difficulty finding one that my husband and I can handle. We are both aspies in question. My big thing is this..Is there a church that can be a haven to people on the outside? Can a person truly walk into your church off the street and feel welcome and like a human being? Please keep an environment of kindness and compassion. also, of respect and honesty.

If one's moral compass is naturally turned wrong, how does one know that anything, including the bible, or anyone claiming to be speaking for God, is right?

also, here's that other thread I started, if anyone's interested.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... 22#1464322

Welcome, Jeff!

I fancy myself a "spiritual atheist" and have been going to this nice little Unitarian Universalist church in downtown Fargo for a couple years now. The services are a wonderful mix of intellectually stimulating topics and beautiful music. The congregation is quite small and the people there are very tolerant and accepting of people that are "different" and thus it is a good place for an aspie.

I also practice meditation.