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auntblabby
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28 Apr 2015, 4:27 pm

^^^
at least in my case, you're preaching to the choir :thumleft: I know what it is like to struggle and fail until one runs out of energy. as clint eastwood said in some movie, "a man's gotta know his limitations."



btbnnyr
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28 Apr 2015, 4:48 pm

I didn't say that anything would guarantee achieving one's goals, I am not talking about wealth when I say goals or success, but more like reaching a state of contentment where you are happy with who you are and what you do most of the time in daily life.

I am not interested in being above a wealth median, as I find happiness in learning, studying, doing science research where I could make enough salary to support myself, but I would not be rich.

I am not a believer in any horatio alger myth, I have just learned from my own life eggsperiences that in order to achieve my goals, I must take actions, some of which are hard for me, but I must do it, if I want to do what I want to do in life.

I had some luck with my genes, but I also put in lots of effort, and I reject the idea that my genes contributed the most to my circumstances in life.

My circumstances are nothing glorious, I am just a poor student/researcher, but I have found much happiness in my daily pursuits.


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slave
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28 Apr 2015, 4:55 pm

BirdInFlight wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
BirdInFlight wrote:
slave wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
aside from sheer brute force IQ and general lack of addlements, I wonder what it is that separates the above-the-median aspies from the rest of us? luck?

Luck plays a major role in terms of upbringing/parents/socioeconomic status, but I think natural-born motivation, personal effort, and not giving up grittiness are important too.

YUP

And once again I will say, while no successful person ever got that far without "natural-born motivation, personal effort, and not giving up grittiness," it also happens that someone can have those same qualities and still not get to the same place. There really is such a thing as the element of dumb luck, and also "who you know" and who you can schmooze. Yep, an Aspie quality, the ability to schmooze....[insert sarcasm smiley here] Speaking for myself, if you had any idea some of things in my life where I have had to have not-giving-up-grittiness, it would make your hair curl. Still not rich.

some folks will not be disabused of the horatio alger meme because that is the thing which enables them to feel hope in life.



I'm starting to feel emotional about this now, because I'm both a loser and a winner because I've managed to do that much but then a thread like this practically screams "yeah if that's all you've achieved you're still an undriven bum." :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: Is this how you believe I view you?

I can't tell if you are referring to me. pls clarify



auntblabby
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28 Apr 2015, 5:04 pm

was not referring to you. but I was referring to people who have done well in life through a combo of luck and pluck who look down their noses at those of us who still struggle. that lately has become the American way, to step on people when they are down. the people who believe that all it takes to succeed is willpower are the ones who just don't understand that willpower itself is a resource that some of us don't have. or that we may have oodles of willpower but no luck or brains to back it up.



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28 Apr 2015, 5:10 pm

For me, psychological factors and/or executive dysfunction led to self-sabotage and squandered opportunities.


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slave
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28 Apr 2015, 5:11 pm

auntblabby wrote:
was not referring to you. but I was referring to people who have done well in life through a combo of luck and pluck who look down their noses at those of us who still struggle. that lately has become the American way, to step on people when they are down.



Oh good, I'm glad. :D

The wealth/income inequality in most nations is increasing over time and those who are affluent have every advantage in terms of keeping and growing that wealth.



auntblabby
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28 Apr 2015, 5:12 pm

justkillingtime wrote:
For me, psychological factors and/or executive dysfunction led to self-sabotage and squandered opportunities.

you took the words right outta my mouth :o



BirdInFlight
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28 Apr 2015, 5:20 pm

auntblabby wrote:
^^^
at least in my case, you're preaching to the choir :thumleft: I know what it is like to struggle and fail until one runs out of energy. as clint eastwood said in some movie, "a man's gotta know his limitations."


:thumleft: :cheers:



btbnnyr
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28 Apr 2015, 8:53 pm

I reject the idea that what I worked for is primarily attributed to luck and genes, I think that I had a good genetic basis for intellectual potential, but I also had strong autistic traits from birth, and these are likely also genetic. I attribute most of my successes and failures to what I did and choices I made.


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justkillingtime
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28 Apr 2015, 9:02 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
I reject the idea that what I worked for is primarily attributed to luck and genes, I think that I had a good genetic basis for intellectual potential, but I also had strong autistic traits from birth, and these are likely also genetic. I attribute most of my successes and failures to what I did and choices I made.


But what causes people to make their choices? Is it their brain, their environment, their character, psychological factors or something else?


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btbnnyr
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28 Apr 2015, 9:13 pm

justkillingtime wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
I reject the idea that what I worked for is primarily attributed to luck and genes, I think that I had a good genetic basis for intellectual potential, but I also had strong autistic traits from birth, and these are likely also genetic. I attribute most of my successes and failures to what I did and choices I made.


But what causes people to make their choices? Is it their brain, their environment, their character, psychological factors or something else?


It's the combination of these many factors, but I find that taking personal responsibilty for my choices puts me into a better position to make good choices for me, such as being a responsible person or taking opportunities as I find them or going after something that seems hard to achieve.


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28 Apr 2015, 9:21 pm

I've made a lot of good choices that weren't easy, even for NTs--going to a good school thousands of miles from home, and then relocating even farther to get a job that required my unique skill set.

I do my own taxes to better understand the tax code. I may not have voted for President Bush, but the American way is to take full advantage of the tax breaks he signed. :wink:



Last edited by BTDT on 28 Apr 2015, 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

auntblabby
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28 Apr 2015, 9:23 pm

the quality of one's frontal lobes plus the quality of intra-brain region/hemisphere communication, is the major determinant, of how well one can surmount one's circumstances. in this regard, some folk [many on the street, jail-bound, in prison or dead] are SOL. people with "noisy" brains don't do well in general. a living example of this was the tragic case of phinneas gage, a railroad worker who got an accidental lobotomy when a railroad spike was explosively driven through his forehead through the frontal lobes. he survived but his good sense [executive function, sound judgment] left him the moment the spike exited through the top of his head, carrying away the brain matter that had been the repository of said good sense. google him and you will read a sad story.



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28 Apr 2015, 9:40 pm

I remember Phinneas Gage from a psychology class in the early 1970s. There are many sad stories.


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btbnnyr
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28 Apr 2015, 10:06 pm

I think that when some people see someone else doing well or succeeding, they might attribute the other person's success to luck or higher quality frontal lobes whatever that means instead of the person's own efforts to do what they are doing and trying to deal with difficulties that they may also have, including EF problems, social problems, sensory problems, etc. There seems like an insistence sometimes that people are lucky, won genetic lottery, have rich parents, lesser autistic traits, etc, even when the person says that they worked really hard for what they have, had to deal with as many or as strong autistic traits as many others, didn't have economic advantage, etc.


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justkillingtime
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28 Apr 2015, 10:23 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
I think that when some people see someone else doing well or succeeding, they might attribute the other person's success to luck or higher quality frontal lobes whatever that means instead of the person's own efforts to do what they are doing and trying to deal with difficulties that they may also have, including EF problems, social problems, sensory problems, etc. There seems like an insistence sometimes that people are lucky, won genetic lottery, have rich parents, lesser autistic traits, etc, even when the person says that they worked really hard for what they have, had to deal with as many or as strong autistic traits as many others, didn't have economic advantage, etc.


I take from what you said that resilience and hard work play a large role. My daughter has those traits and does very well. I have seen people work hard and go nowhere. I think there are many ingredients and I just feel some people are in poverty through no fault of their own. I am looking at it from the failure point of view and you are looking at it from a thriving perspective.


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