The Hope of Today & The Audacity of Yesterday

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This is me being nice, I assure you.

As for being 'a bit mean', how would you describe someone who puts others down for trying to find some dignity, accomplishment, and joy in their troubled lives (i.e. your attacks on 'pride')? You have been far more than 'a bit' mean, and you seem determined to proceed with your hateful attacks on pride.

I don't think that you have sufficiently coherent thoughts on "Autism Pride & Prejudice" to warrant writing a book on it. I urge you to work on both your thoughts and your expression of your thoughts before writing more posts, let alone a book. If you have an argument to make, then make it, but first learn to think it through and write it clearly, coherently, and succinctly.

As someone who has been writing a book for several years, and who knows it is not even close to being ready to be read, it offends me to see someone so cavalierly speak of 'writing a book'. Have some respect.

I am not using put downs. You are projecting again. Also I doubt you know what arrogance means if you use it every time it never happens. How was I arrogant? Was it because I disagreed with the great master of logic ci?

No you haven't talked about tolerance. You have whined on about how you're right and how the 'pride-mites are out to get you'.
I never said that wasn't the truth. Stop trying to wriggle in sane points that hadn't been discussed before in to your worm-ridden diatribes.

Liar

You are truly deluded if you believe that. The reason I took issue with you was because you started outwardly attacking me like you're part of some Stalinist purge.


Sort of like the conflict you are stirring with multiple people right now? Or are you going to keep blaming other people of your faults?


H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E
What does that spell?
ci



And here we go people! The proof that ci actually thinks that I am an autism supremacist! After all this pointless whining all he has done is prove that he is a divisive idiot who thinks all of his opponents think the same thing! Human cleansing, what a pathetic attempt to lump me in with other people. I remember you when you replied to Autism Supremacists. Your responses were weak and unsubstantial and did nothing to point out the monstrosity of their evil! You are beyond terrible.
Of course, hide. Please hide. I want you to shut up for once and think about how infuriating you have been and how everything everyone has ever called you in these last few days is absolutely correct. When you are ready to say sorry then we will recieve you with open arms.

I am not the one hating pride I am removing prides hate of others and intolerance of them. Self-respect does not come by calling others Nazi's, saying people want pity and holding such signs when they call people pity who are compassionate and demanding I view autism only a certain way. Instead the pride movement should seek to accept others views of autism as a disability that others with autism seek a remedy for. The style of the book is analysis (open thinking style) story telling from a perspective of an individual character (partially fictional) describing his views on what's going on in the "autism world of politics".

Please try not to be offended that someone of my writing and thinking ability might as well write a book just like you and it might be comparable in readership! So very insulting to your abilities!

Nope you are coming into a topic about pride discussion when I had creatively used the extremes of views reflecting what pride advocates have done representing pride. You have in your chosen behavior called names, used put downs constantly and putting your foot in your mouth accusing me of what you do. The clear solution to me is to value personal opinions as personal choices. When it steps over the line of asserting the the choices of for another individual it evades human rights. Such as saying a cure for autism is bigotry and no cure should be available. While this is a personal choice and point of view it should not result in the removal of the choice for cure for another individual. Evasions of potential choices have been present in ASAN protest for instance. Never did I say you were at the protest or supported the protests in whole or in part. Yet you are butting into a topic horrifically with personal attacks in every post but not talking about the issues constructively. That's your typical behavior towards others you disagree with and it doesn't seem to get you that far. You will not earn my respect with the constant name calling, put downs and accusations.

Last edited by ci on 15 Aug 2011, 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ci, unless you do some serious work on your reasoning, as well as your writing, you can write as many books as you like and nobody will ever read them.

I think you just need to read it and ask questions. Several times when people simply disagree who consider themselves better just denote myself to being too dumb. It's a bit narcissistic and rude. I will not feel I am simply inferior to you for your being to intolerant to even bother discussing the rationale with me as a respectable equal human being.

Nowhere near as narcissistic as you claiming you are going to write a book people will read when you can hardly string a coherent paragraph together. That is just ridiculous.

What are you on?

This is nonsense. I have already explained what I mean by 'pride' and what you are attributing to it has nothing to do with what I or anyone I've ever met meant by 'pride'.

quote="ci"]Self-respect does not come by calling others Nazi's, saying people want pity and holding such signs when they call people pity who are compassionate and demanding I view autism only a certain way.[/quote]

I have not called anyone here a Nazi, I have neither asked for pity or suggested that others have asked for pity, I hold no signs, [the next bit is too incoherent to respond to], and frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn how you view autism.

quote="ci"]Instead the pride movement should seek to accept others views of autism as a disability that others with autism seek a remedy for.

Autism is a disability for some and not for others. I will not try to dictate how anyone views autism, and urge you to do the same. While I am personally offended with the ease with which you whitewash all autistics as diseased and in need of a cure, I will overlook that and simply say: I do not think there is or will be a cure for autism in any of our lifetimes. Since autism appears to involve significantly different structuring of our brains from those of NTs, a 'cure' would most likely have to involved genetic engineering and be applied as soon after conception as possible. Rather than insist on 'curing' something that is a mixture of gift and curse for many of us, we will need to find ways to improve our ability to cope with problems, improve our ability to enjoy and make use of our gifts, and educate the rest of the world (and some of ourselves, it seems) on how we can all live better in the same world.

In other words, I reject your basic premisses.

quote="ci"]The style of the book is analysis (open thinking style) story telling from a perspective of an individual character (partially fictional) describing his views on what's going on in the "autism world of politics".

I know what 'analysis' should mean.

I wonder who the (partially fictional) character is based on?

quote="ci"]Please try not to be offended that someone of my writing and thinking ability might as well write a book just like you and it might be comparable in readership! So very insulting to your abilities![/quote]

I'm far from insulted, and I truly don't regard what we each are writing as being in competition.

It is simply that, on the basis of your posts, I don't think that you are ready to write a book.

Thats out right demeaning. To allow myself basic confidences in myself compared to your own is put down as if I am delusional to even think I am as capable as you and others. You are in a sense the very meaning of social bullying. What I like to tell others is to believe in themselves and try to do what you think is out of reach for yourself within reason. I think you underestimate people to feel better about yourself in your capabilities.

I never said you were calling people Nazi's and so on. I'm talking about members of the pride movement whom do when applicable. You however think as if I am AUTISM Speaks. I choose to figure out why people would stress the importance of viewing autism as a serious disability with words commonly found in establishment rather then taking it personally all of the time. With regards to the book it is in part fictional because the portrayal will not always be an actual person thinking it in reality as what would be naturally such as myself in real-time. It will in part be functional presenting potential emotions of the observer about issues. A person who has thought of the issues and described an understanding of both sides to formulate a middle ground personal point of view. I do not need your personal approval nor knowledge of how you are insulted that I write.

I will never be ready to write a book according to your standards with how my disability is. To bad.

I've read some very good books by autistics, using English effectively and often beautifully to communicate their thoughts. It has been a pleasure reading their books.

Not everyone is cut out to be an author.

Don't blame autism for bad writing. It may be a contributing factor, but many people will not put up with inept writing even if they want to hear what a person has to say. Nothing in your posts suggests to me that you have The Thing that will lead many people to wade through prose with a machete to get to what you are trying to say.

I just don't get that kind of review by professionals and in fact get complements. It's those that are really into abstract learning that seem to enjoy it the most. The book then you shouldn't read nor should your style and methods of articulation dictate whether or not someone can be an author. I wouldn't dare to ever say the alike to another individual so as to amount them to incapable and unworthy but that is the trait of a superiorist in part. Your not better then me nor are others and I don't claim I am better and others unworthy compared to me.

You are quite free with the generalizations. I am not a member of a 'pride movement', I am not a Nazi, and I don't appreciate your repeated erroneous statements that are intended to be insulting.

I am speaking about those who are part of the pride movement and where applicable those who are that call others Nazi's, pity, human cleaners and so on. It's a movement myself and others want nothing to do with. To me they are insulting to constructive beneficial change with some of the tactics they either support or do not speak against. I'm doing my part. I've been accused of being an ASAN even before I knew what it was!

If your not a pride advocate great because it's a PR mess beyond typical reconciliation with what some have done in the name of it whom are prominent pride advocates. Perhaps they meant to do that. To destroy pride the movement by being so reckless in politics and awareness.

The cure folks I think are at times zealous and very concerned. I'm not sure if they actually intended to harm peoples feelings when people feel that way. We'd have to ask.

Oh, please.

Now your suggesting that the reason I find your writing painful is that I'm not capable of sufficiently abstract learning or simply not up to it intellectually.

It really isn't relevant, but I spent far too much of my life in college. I've got a B.A. in English Literature, two minors in math, and a B.S., M.S., and a Ph.D. in Computer Science, I've read tens of thousands of books, ranging from light reading through books of philosophy far denser than your posts. The difference is that they made me want to figure out what they meant. One of my interests is ancient Greek history and cultures. Another is the history of math and science.

None of this makes me special, or even noteworthy in the autism community. I raise these things merely to point out that it isn't that I'm incapable of reading what you write, just that you haven't made it worth the trouble.

I also want to point out, to others, that while staying in college this long was something of an accomplishment in terms of persistence (I dropped out twice because of depression), it was a much safer place for me than Reality - I really resented having to leave when I finished grad school. I'm smart, but most of my success in school was due to sheer stubbornness and hating to work really tedious jobs when I wasn't in school.

I tried (I really did) to offer some constructive suggestions as to how you could make your posts more accessible. It isn't easy to take criticism - I have a big problem with that myself - and I'm fully prepared to wait some time and hope that things improve, but I won't let some statements stand unchallenged.

Last edited by AlanTuring on 15 Aug 2011, 9:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

More nonsense.

Just because I'm not a member of what you call the 'pride movement' doesn't mean I'm not an advocate of pride.

I simply reject your conspiracy-theory notion of a 'movement'.