Tell everyone, regarding aspie Talha Ahsan in solitary

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If I joined every pointless cause that came along, I'd have no sanity left at all.

See, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syed_Talha_Ahsan

Oh good. Wikipedia. Now there's a reliable site.

How much of it have you already "edited for truth"?

Let's see some real evidence to support your case.

From http://www.justice.gov/usao/ct/atac.html:

Not exactly an un-biased source either, but one that I'd certainly trust more than Wikipedia. Thanks for the link!

Those who support terrorism may as well be terrorists themselves.

Wasn't arguing the merits of that, just pointing out you said "he will still be considered guilty". Looks like you have made your mind up, or perhaps more accurately have had it made up for you.

Yes. I've made up my mind. He's guilty as Hell. So what? Those who whine about "The accused is innocent until proven guilty ..." leave out two important things. The first is that the saying finishes with "... in a court of criminal law"; meaning that outside of a court of law, there is no ethical, legal, or moral standard to dictate what my opinion shall be. The second is that there is no verdict of "Innocent"; only "Guilty" (preponderance of evidence favors a guilty verdict) and "Not Guilty" (the prosecution failed to prove its case).

In my opinion, he's a collaborator and sympathizer for terrorists, so he may as well be a terrorist himself. Let him rot, for all that I care.

Talha Ahsan is virtually unheard of in the United States because he has received very little coverage in the American media. Therefore almost all of the publicity he has are British sources. Unlike Gary Mckinnon who has openly confessed to his crimes of hacking and could be jailed in the UK under the Computer Misuse Act, Talha Ahsan has always pleaded not guilty to his alleged crimes. The reason he was extradited was because there was insufficient evidence to put him on trial in the UK. A British businessman even tried to invoke a private prosecution but it also got thrown out because of lack of evidence. If the evidence existed that he was engaged in terrorist activities then he could have been jailed in Britain instead.

The American system of justice is based around the concept of a plea bargain where a defendent is given a stark choice of pleading guilty and receiving a short sentence, or holding a full court trial with the risk of a lengthy sentence if found guilty. The British businessman Christopher Tappin who was extradited earlier this year pleaded guilty, not because he was guilty, but on pragmatic grounds because he would rather receive a 35 month jail sentence than run the risk a 35 year jail sentence. Plea bargains do not exist in the British justice system and full trials with juries are held instead.

No I don't. His family and campaigners have campaigned for him to be put on trial in the UK and if found guilty jailed.

The centrepiece of the issue is the appalling case of double standards in justice between Talha Ahsan and Gary McKinnon. Issues resulting from Asperger syndrome were the one and only reason why Gary McKinnon's extradition was blocked but Asperger syndrome wasn't even taken into account by the Home Secretary in the case of Talha Ahsan.

Who is to say that Gary McKinnon should not have been extradited as well?

The problem with posting this here is that this is a community where quite a large number of vocal members tend not to feel that AS should be an excuse for anything. Bringing up Gary McKinnon is probably not going to help because the same members who are already not in favor of getting behind this cause, would likely have been against Gary McKinnon not being extradited as well.

For those who are not jumping on this bandwagon here, it's not about race at all. It's about AS alone not being a good enough reason to block the extradition. The same logic would apply to both suspects for the same responders here.

Is that meant to be some cynical statement that no country should have the power to stop an extradition to the US from taking place?



The cases surrounding Talha Ahsan and Gary McKinnon are intertwined because of Asperger syndrome.



Your argument does not hold any water because AS was a good enough reason to block the extradition of Gary McKinnon. What has happened is a gross and extreme example of double standards in justice.

Arran, you are completely missing my point.

It's not a statement It's a question. That's why there is a question mark at the end of it.





This is where to totally miss the point. And the point is:

The members here not getting behind this cause, are choosing not to, because they do not feel that AS is cause enough to block ANYONE'S extraditon. Be that person's name Gary McKinnon, Talha Ahsan, Mickey Mouse, or Walt Disney.

Whether the two cases are intertwined is irrelevant to why they aren't supporting it.



If you think it doesn't hold any water, why don't you ask the other users what their reasons are for not supporting this cause?

The point you're missing is that my responses to you specifically are not about whether either McKinnon or Ahsan should have been extradited.

My responses to you are about why you are pretty much wasting your breath trying to convince the most vocal of posters on this thread who don't agree with this cause and why it is a waste of your time. Bringing up McKinnon simply won't help.

Those who already do not agree with this cause, would most likely feel that McKinnon should have been extradited TOO.

Is that more clear?

I'm unsure what Americans generally think of Gary McKinnon and whether he should or shouldn't have been extradited.

Are most Americans familiar with Gary McKinnon or is he a person that most have never heard of?

The only think I know is that the American media is very American centric and gives little coverage to foreign affairs - apart from possibly instances where the US military is involved. As a result of this Americans often have a weak knowledge of current affairs in the rest of the world.

Do you feel your aspergers ever makes you list US fleet movements with regards to which one's would be good to rpg?
I am sorry but it seems the muslim community is too willing to make excuses for babar ahmad and tahla assan, 2 men who undoubtedly will be found guilty of terrorism..
The reason they are being tried in america is because their crimes mainly effected america, imagine this, if i hacked a nuclear power grid and sent the reactor haywire annihilating everyone nearby, but this power grid is in a different country, where should i be tried?

Look i don't care but aspergers is not an excuse for doing stupid s**t, we all know the BASICS of right and wrong.. whether or not you actually agree with those basics is different...

Both mckinon and ashan sould be extradited.. If we wan't equality we have to be equal in all aspects..

I'm making an intelligent guess here that Babar Ahmad will plead guilty to the possession of top secret documents because a disk with data about the US fleet movements was found on his desk. However, this is a not a terrorism offence. I have no knowledge of whether he had or had not publicised or disseminated the data.

In the UK there are many non-Muslims from all walks of life who are opposed to the extradition and believe that Talha Ahsan and Babar Ahmad should receive a fair trial in a British court.



I have studied the indictment (which happens to be an allegation, nothing but an allegation, and is NOT evidence of guilt) and it appears that many of the alleged offences are violations of the Patriot Act. If the website had shut down before the Patriot Act came into force then the law is being applied retroactively. Also, it is only fair and just that US authorities can only prosecute using material from the website during the time it was stored on a server in the US.

I'm not a lawyer so don't quote this material as factually correct and true. My recommendation is that you discuss the matter with his lawyer Joshua Dratel who knows more about it than I do.

My own feelings are that Talha Ahsan's involvement in the entire affair are marginal at best. His extradition request came two years after that of Babar Ahmad and can only have come about as a result of some information bearing his name surfacing in the meantime. There are pointers that his name was mentioned by a prisoner in Guantanamo bay whilst being tortured.



Please do not conflate right and wrong with legal and illegal. It is perfectly possible to have a website with content that is highly distasteful, morally wrong, but still 100% legal and legitimate. If the website was illegal then why wasn't it shut down by the authorities back in the 1990s?

I think it's sort of notable who the people are who are 'standing up' for him - almost entirely people from the Muslim community (and the most prominent voices happen to be Islamists) with very few other people involved in advocating for him besides Liberty (who have a long history of, shall we say, selectively defending free speech). Which says a lot.

If the U.S. can bring a decent case for extradition to the UK, then they should be able to extradite him. Simple as that.