A series on don't let autism mess up a straight white dude

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this is a most bizzare,sick and twisted post ive seen in a long time

Which post are you talking about?

the whole thread seems bizzarely negative kind of like something you might see on twitter.

maybe i am just to old to understand young peoples perceptions of love and dating

So, you saw something, that you thought looked like twitter, then not know what was going on, made a bunch of declarative statements, directed at no one in particular. Doesn't that strike you as a bit strange?

the post seemed winnie and cry baby like,sort of like twitter rants

What I don't understand is, why is this EmmaPretzel person trying to pretend she knows anything at all about men when she herself is a ciswoman? And why does she seem to think there's nothing wrong with outright hating Aspie men? Seriously, it seems like she's just trolling for the sake of trolling. And why should anyone take that sort of behavior seriously at all?

I don't think she hates aspie men at all. What led you to believe that?

Was it this paragraph?



Here is how I interpret it, and I was brought up as a boy and man with Asperger's syndrome: If a man with Asperger's syndrome feels entitled to a woman, that is not the autism, but male socialization. (Indeed, it would seem that many men feel entitled to women and sex.) Confusing that aspect of male socialization with autism may be harmful to autistic people. Already, many have grown to distrust men who say they have Asperger's syndrome because of a recurrent tendency to use that diagnosis as a false excuse for simple bad behvior. (As a result, I rarely bring it up.) As an autistic woman herself, Emma seems exasperated by the constant attention given to this issue and these negative ramifications (and probably also the way that autism and Asperger's syndrome have become associated primarily with boys and men in the minds of many, almost like autistic girls and women don't exist; I myself share in this exasperation). In my opinion, for someone in an oppressed group, you really need a strong level of evidence for that person actually hating the privileged group; you must understand that a lot of it may be an expression of exasperation at the microaggressions the person faces in and out each and every day. I think this fundamental misunderstanding may be what is at issue. You are mistaking an expression of exasperation for real hate.

In the past, I would have viewed her statement as nothing but hate, but over time I have gained perspective on this matter.

So you think that there's nothing at all hateful about implying that all men are socialized to think that they're entitled to women? What if someone said that all women are socialized to be weak and dependent on men? Do you think that wouldn't be hateful, either?

Also, if you distrust all men, then that's your problem, not men's problem. I hate the current trend where women like to blame men for their own (the women's, that is) obvious paranoia and trust/fear issues. It seems like women who have trust/fear issues would rather take those issues out on men than actually deal with those issues by taking meds and/or seeing a therapist. You know, I distrust most people (due to being bullied/ostracized during my childhood and teenage years), but you don't see me blaming society for that, since I know it's an issue that I need to deal with myself.

Also, men are not a "privileged group." Men actually commit suicide at a rate 4 times higher than women. Men also have to live with the fact that, when women rape or abuse them, people usually don't believe them or think it's funny. Then, there's also the fact that men usually aren't granted custody of their children in divorce cases, even when the mother is abusive. Or what about the draft, which us women are privileged enough not to have to worry about at all?

Seriously, thinking that men are "privileged" at all makes zero sense.

As for "microaggressions," those are just complaints, and most people just find constructive ways to deal with their complaints, rather than using them as a weapon against others. I mean, I often feel like the bus drivers here in MA are needlessly rude, but you don't see me trying to b***h to them about that. And that's because I know that'd be completely unproductive and would just serve to make the bus drivers even angrier than they already are.

So how do you figure that you have perspective on this issue that I don't have? Seems to me like all you have is baseless sexism.

Since this is turning into something of a Gish gallop, let's look at one obvious fact: Simple rudeness does not a microaggression make. Microaggressions are not always expressed in a rude tone; probably most of the time they aren't. I would suggest reading more on this topic.

Now, let's look at the general approach that we take to this issue:

To some extent, this is going to have to be a journey for you. Basically, you need to learn to look at the views of feminists with a more open mind. I myself thought I had the one true objective opinion, but boy was I wrong. In many ways, I found that the views of these feminists were far more objective, and in many ways gave me a lens to look into a world I had never before seen: The consequences of being a girl and then a woman in this society.

It may be difficult to fully express this to someone who sees little to no value in such a perspective.

It's not a Gish gallop, it's simply pointing out the holes in your arguments. Holes, by the way, that you have yet to acknowledge at all. Refusing to acknowledge what I just said doesn't make me wrong, you know.


I said that microaggressions are complaints, not that they're rude. Please don't put words in my mouth.


You do realize that I myself am a woman, don't you? I was once a feminist myself. But then I took a closer look at feminism, and at what it had become, and saw how harmful it was for men. You, on the other hand, don't seem to care about men at all. Heck, you're completely ignoring my entire paragraph about how men aren't actually privileged. So, tell me, why should I think that you're anything more than yet another misandrist who tries to hide their hatred for men behind feminism?

Microaggressions are not mere complaints. In fact, they are not complaints at all!

Let me give a definition for you: "brief, everyday exchanges that send denigrating messages to certain individuals because of their group membership" (quote in Wikipedia attributed to Professor Derald Wing Sue). For an Asian-American who grew up here, the question, given after the Asian-American gives the American town in which they grew up, "No. Where are you really from?" would often count, because it implies that the Asian-American is a foreigner in their own country. (This is something that Asian-Americans really hate, and yet most white people don't seem to care and will keep doing it again and again; when confronted about it, most whites will try to rationalize it away and will turn around and do it again.)

Consider this for women: The widespread discimination in society (that is now done in a very quiet manner), the objectification (especially the sexual objectification), the expectation that girls and women take passive roles, the widespread violence committed by men compared to women* (and which is often directed against women), the rampant misogyny in society, and other systematic and widespread problems.

I'm certain that, as an autistic woman, you yourself have had problems from society that related to your both being autistic and a woman. If you don't want to share them, I understand.

* "Male offending equals about 1 violent offender for every 9 males age 10 or older, a per capita rate 6 times that of women." http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/wo.pdf

I'm just wondering, but why do you keep expecting me to respond to what you say when you refuse to respond to what I've said? Conversation is supposed to be a give and take, and so far, you have given and given and refused to take at all. (In other words, you've given me a ton of points to refute, but have refused to take anything I've said into consideration at all.)

This conversation is over until you actually respond to everything I've said to you thus far, especially my points about how men aren't privileged at all.

I refuse to keep spending my time writing things to you that you, most likely, will end up ignoring. It's just pointless for me to refute your points now, since you seem to be determined to ignore most of what I write. (And by the way, ignoring your opponent is a horrible debating tactic.)

Let us talk about the boys and men, then. A lot of issues faced by men are mostly caused by boys and men themselves, which is a reflection of the relative power held by the male sex in society, such as the lack of tolerance for sex role-divergent expression in boys and men which is often "punished" by violence by other boys and men against them ("sissies," "gays," etc., and ditto for men not feeling able to report sexual violence against them), pushing women into the mothering roles while most men take more detached roles as breadwinners (thus causing women to be more likely to be awarded custody), and the suspicion faced by autistic men when they say they have Asperger's syndrome (which comes from men using it as a false excuse for bad behavior). Higher rate of suicide are complex, but I would not be surprised if the dog-eat-dog, highly competitive culture men are subject to contributes to it. Also, I know that men tend to use methods that are much more likely to be fatal such as a gun to the head. Women have much higher rates of attempts than men, I know.

As for war, this skewed perspective can only come in a country that has gone a long time without actual widespread fighting coming to its shores. The U.S. was very insulated from the homefront effects of World War II compared to all the other great powers of World War II (the other great powers being the U.K., France, Germany, Italy, the U.S.S.R., China, and Japan), for example. It makes it easy to forget the actual impact of war on women and children*.

And, again, there is that fact that war tends to be instigated by men, becoming a self-created problem.

Boys and men do have credible complaints, but let us not forget that largely it is brought on them by other boys and men. This, too, is a testament to the power held by members of the male sex.

As for microaggressions, I must admt that I think lower of you because of your dismissal of these experiences.

* http://www.unicef.org/graca/women.htm

What about when women rape and/or abuse men, and society either doesn't take the men seriously, or they laugh at them? How is that men's fault? Or what about all of the times that women have falsely accused men of rape? Or what about the times that feminists have made men's lives hell? (I expect you to look at that link, by the way.)

Seriously, claiming that most of men's problems are their own fault stinks of misandry and a complete refusal to accept that women can be absolutely horrible.

Oh, I don't deny that women can be horrible, too, but you are living in fantasy land if you don't think that the problems listed are mostly caused by boys and men themselves, as I've already demonstrated.

As for men not being taken seriously, I already addressed that. The main reason is that feminine traits in boys and men tend to be very poorly tolerated, with much of the "punishment" for boys and men with those traits coming from other boys and men. Nevertheless, as I have already demonstrated by providing statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice, violent crime is much more commonly committed by males than by females.

As for false rape reports, they exist and may be somewhat higher than for other crimes, but they are hardly evidence of a concerted feminist effort to destroy boys and men:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... tatistics/

It is unfortunate that so-called men's rights activists blame most of their problems on girls and women when they should be looking at other boys and men. Issues that can be said to be caused by girls and women are really quite miniscule to the issues caused by other boys and men. This, again, is a testament to the relative power held by members of the male sex in this society.

I see that you continue to bring in new issues as old ones get batted down, including bringing in a tumblr that is basically a big list with no context and for which many of the items are sourced by not so reliable sources such as posts on obscure blogs, so this is clearly turning into a Gish gallop where you work to overwhelm your opponent with as many points as possible. If that was not your intent, then it's unfortunate, but demanding your opponent read and address a huge page of points, made by the page you presented with little context provided on the page for each one, while you continue to bring in new and fresh ones yourself is really quite unreasonable. I will not engage you in such a conversation.

This is true. Men are their own worst enemy.

However, women, also, are their own worst enemy. Any slut shaming and body policing done by men can't hold a candle to that which is done by women. You think men are somehow poweful enough to not only cause problems for themselves, but also to keep women down with them? No. If you're looking for the source of most of the problems faced by women, you need only look in the mirror.

Seriously, if you were to draw up a flow chart of all the potential categories you can think to put people in, and connect them up according to who's oppressing who, the thickest lines will be the ones leading back to their start.

As it is written, "They were born into a world that was against them in a thousand little ways, and then devoted most of their energies to making it worse."