Activism works! Bloggers shut down FAAAS conference
06 Jun 2013, 10:57 am
RUKidding wrote:
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"And I notice that you have failed to explain exactly what it is that they "go through". Do tell."
From what I've seen here, you guys demonize every website that discusses it. You already know what they are.
When people on those websites do a good job of attempting to demonise us, then yes we will call it what it is - plain bigotry.
RUKidding wrote:
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"RUKidding wrote:
Not even one of these posts reflects that. All you do is basically post "poor me, I can't help it" and THEY should understand that.
That isn't true. Most of us try to improve upon things that cause discomfort to our Neurotypical partners, within reason. We simply expect some understanding in return."
Not even one of these posts reflects that. All you do is basically post "poor me, I can't help it" and THEY should understand that.
That isn't true. Most of us try to improve upon things that cause discomfort to our Neurotypical partners, within reason. We simply expect some understanding in return."
I was referring to the posts I'm reading, that's all. "within reason" to whom? You? What if your partner doesn't find it reasonable? Expect? That's kind of the problem, isn't it? Perhaps "ask" would be the more preferable word if you didn't want to appear as "demanding" as some of the people who have dealt with you guys report experiencing? How much of a choice and full information do you really give the people you are about to get involved with? How much do you minimize to prevent your risk of losing a potential? Do you take advantage of the counseling and support groups available for supporting these partnerships and introduce your prospective others to them? Just wondering.
Most of the issues in relationships that may be caused by Asperger's or ASD in general are due mainly to non-verbal communication problems that are part of the disorder. Unfortunately, therefore expecting us to communicate feelings non-verbally in the same way as a neurotypical might is an unreasonable expectation. That's why we need understanding. We are not saying that reciprocation shouldn't happen in a relationship, what we are saying is that sometimes we prefer to communicate verbally for those things to happen because we don't always pick up non-verbal cues from the partner and that's what we need understanding in. Yes, an aspie partner has to make an effort for the relationship to work but as in all relationships, work needs to come from both partners. So, often if it's with an aspie partner, then that does mean that the neurotypical partner has to change somewhat as well to accommodate the disorder. Yes, that may be hard but it's actually just as hard for the as pie partner. If you look around the forum, you will find that there are NT members here, with AS partners who have not only had their relationships improve doing this, but they ended up having fulfilling ones as well, because the aspies are able to give the emotional support they need as long as their needs are met as well.
RUKidding wrote:
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RUKidding wrote:
Shutting down a conference for people who need to be able to support each other from what they are put through by some people on the ASD scale is NOT "activism", IT IS BULLYING.
Okay ... So, shutting down a conference of an organisation which perpetuates negative stereotypes about us, posts misinformation, gives women with unreasonable expectations an excuse for their behaviour, and essentially aims to make finding romance even more immensely difficult for us than it already is, is bullying?! Sure.
Shutting down a conference for people who need to be able to support each other from what they are put through by some people on the ASD scale is NOT "activism", IT IS BULLYING.
Okay ... So, shutting down a conference of an organisation which perpetuates negative stereotypes about us, posts misinformation, gives women with unreasonable expectations an excuse for their behaviour, and essentially aims to make finding romance even more immensely difficult for us than it already is, is bullying?! Sure.
It's actually an unreasonable expectation for a woman to want a husband who can actually communicate things like "love, attentiveness, affection, mutual interest in the way she neurobiologically needs as a neurotypical? Really?? I've seen plenty of articles on the FAAAS website that actually aim to try and give you guys understanding. I'm not sure how talking about the actual problems you guys exhibit like "mindblindness" is perpetuating a negative stereotype. I'm thinking, for example, of other organizations that deal with certain problems, like NAMI and AA. Both of those organizations have auxilliary support groups for loved ones who live with the problems their loved ones engender and they speak quite frankly and openly about their frustrations and experiences. Why can't a person who is dealing with an ASD spouse?
As I said above, yes, it actually is an unreasonable expectation to expect that the aspie partner will necessarily pick up on non-verbal cues to communicate feelings the way most neurotypicals do. So if she has a problem, she must tell him directly rather than expect him to simply pick up on the fact that she has a problem. Aspies may have some issues communicating love and affection the way you expect but saying that they don't have those feelings is patently false. Sometimes finding alternative ways to communicate them is necessary. We are not saying that partners of aspies can't have support groups but we would like those groups to include our perspectives as well rather than demonising us as "the problem".
Also, regarding FAAAS, the biggest problem with FAAAS at the time this thread was that they had a family lawyer working with them that was trying to create laws that discriminate against aspies regarding divorce and child custody in the state of Massachusetts. That mostly ended after an ASAN campaign 2008 got Tony Attwood, since he was working with FAAAS at the time and was listed on their website, to write a letter that was displayed even displayed on the FAAAS website, discrediting most of the things Sheila Jennings Linehan (the family lawyer) wrote about us. She's now no longer working with FAAAS and I've noticed that the legal section of the FAAAS website no longer lists her name and is currently empty. So FAAAS is no longer as much of a threat as it used to be. In fact, we were rarely even talking about it anymore until you decided to necro this thread, which is 5 years old by the way.
RUKidding wrote:
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RUKidding wrote:
I happen to have a friend who tried for 15 YEARS to have a sense of empathy and compassion for the ASD husband she married and the court system has allowed him to drain her of literally 100,000s of dollars abusively litigating against her. She did nothing to harm him, spent years trying to help and you people have absolutely no sense of empathy for someone who has gone through something like that?
If what you say is true, then her husband sounds like a total as*hole. An Autistic as*hole. But guess what? There are also Neurotypical a**holes. As far as we know, Osama Bin Laden was a Neurotypical, but have you seen a single post here equating all Neurotypicals to the likes of him? Allow me to answer: No, you have not and will not.
I happen to have a friend who tried for 15 YEARS to have a sense of empathy and compassion for the ASD husband she married and the court system has allowed him to drain her of literally 100,000s of dollars abusively litigating against her. She did nothing to harm him, spent years trying to help and you people have absolutely no sense of empathy for someone who has gone through something like that?
If what you say is true, then her husband sounds like a total as*hole. An Autistic as*hole. But guess what? There are also Neurotypical a**holes. As far as we know, Osama Bin Laden was a Neurotypical, but have you seen a single post here equating all Neurotypicals to the likes of him? Allow me to answer: No, you have not and will not.
Maybe because neurotypicals don't have a standard diagnostic criteria that includes "significant impairments" interacting with others? That's why people like Osama Bin Laden get shot and not a special defense based on their standardized diagnostic impairment? Yes, I agree, not all people with Asperger's are outright menaces to society, in fact, from what I've read, they are few. However, it is a rather streamlined reported experience of neurotypicals that you guys can be quite draining, whether to the point of actual menace or not.
Us having change to fit in neurotypical world is draining for us too.
RUKidding wrote:
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We do not perpetuate negative stereotypes about you based on the actions of one individual, so why do you do this to us?
As I understand it, what you call a negative stereotype is actually a standardized diagnostic criteria, i.e. problems to the extent of "marked impairment" in relating to others which stands out in the experiences of people who deal with you guys.
The diagnostic criteria for Asperger's does not include being an a**hole, it does not include not being able to feel emotions, although we may not express those emotions in the same way, and it does not include becoming abusive to other people. In fact, aspies are more likely to be abused and taken advantage of by other people than the reverse. Your understanding of Asperger's simply wrong.
RUKidding wrote:
RUKidding wrote:
Yeah, it's a serious issue to want someone who can actually reciprocate without "marked impairment" in doing so.
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And, yes, she has done her work and realized what problems of her own got her to miss his problems before she married him. But, you know what? I know plenty of people with her problems that certainly didn't get into a relationship with a person on the ASD scale. So, you'll never convince me that "women with issues" tend to marry people on the ASD scale.
The woman who are members of hate groups such as FAAAS, most certainly do have issues.
The woman who are members of hate groups such as FAAAS, most certainly do have issues.
Yeah, it's a serious issue to want someone who can actually reciprocate without "marked impairment" in doing so.
I already explained this above. If there's "marked impairment", then you're supposed to have some understanding for your partner and find other ways around the issues, same as if you had a partner with other disabilities such as if they needed a wheelchair. But you know what? There is no law that says that you have to stay with them if it's too much of a problem. Why the f**k marry him in the first place if Asperger's was such a problem for her. If she hated him so much then just divorce him. There are people who have partners with far worse problems than Asperger's. Also, comparing Asperger's to alcohol abuse is a false analogy, they are hardly the same thing.
RUKidding wrote:
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Now, please go away, and stick your hateful attitude where the sun don't shine.
For what it is worth, I have a significant "relationship impairment" problem too, there mere mention of which conjures negative images and stereotypes. Outside of a clinical setting and special support groups, it's only spoken of with ridicule and people who, on the surface accept you, by and large know they'd never want a relationship with you. I know, personally, that if I did not have the problem, there is a 99.9% chance I'd never want to deal with someone who did in a "romantic" partnership. It's a problem there was nothing I could do about having, it exists through no fault of my own. You know what I don't do? I don't "expect" anybody to accomodate me over it when I know it could cause them problems. I'm up front in describing to anyone just the extent of problems they may be dealing with if they get involved with me and I am very careful to date long term before expecting them to risk a real commitment and I make it clear to them that if they need to look deep and make sure they really can handle it and that I understand if at any point they realize they can't, I hold nothing against them. I realize my options are limited and that because of that I may never get the relationship I really want. The way I see it, life sucks in one way or another for a huge population on this planet and I'm thankful for what I do have instead of what I may just have to learn to live without no matter how desperately I'd like to have it. I have a great deal of sympathy for what someone goes through who unwittingly gets involved with someone with my problems and suffers as a result.
So do I, actually. I do mention that I've got Asperger's and it's their choice if they want to date me. However, I also think those problems can be overcome with a little understanding.
RUKidding wrote:
Anyway, I hardly find my attitude "hateful". All I noted was that I didn't see one post on these boards that once acknowledged a thought for the difficulties someone dealing with your "marked impairments" might endure and just how bad it can get. I know alcoholics and schizophrenics who do and these are both problems exhibiting "marked impairments" in relationships. I wish you guys luck, I really do. Perhaps with the help of people like Ms. Marshack you can. But, quite frankly, I know of no other group of people with atypical neurology who are nearly as noisy as you guys are against neurotypicals when neurotypicals complain of the problems their atypicals engender in a relationship. You seem to work real hard to minimize their experiences and keep them from getting the mutual emotional support they need from people who understand what they are going through. That's all.
If you didn't see such a post, you didn't look hard enough. As I've said, there are neurotypical members on this board who have worked to accommodate their aspie partners and have even ended up with fulfilling relationships as a result. Yes, I actually do find your attitude hateful and most of what you think you know is blatantly false.
