Stop Bashing Autism Speaks!

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Hehe. Well the issue is that a metaphor is not abstract reasoning. Knowing what the word metaphor means or animal or fish, is abstract reasoning.

And I am wolverine obviously. The gruff, angry, cool loner with the awesome haircut. *Bites his lip to suppress the laughter*

metaphor is to a certain extent abstract reasoning.if one is poor with abstract reasoning they would have dificulty understanding some or maybe most metaphors.abstract reasoning may pertain to many things

That was my mistake, you are correct it wasn't Tambourine man that made the statement that you misattributed to me, I will edit my posts to indicate this. As stated I would appreciate, if you will do the same.

I've already stated that I was the first one to state, part and parcel means integral to. I've also already stated that I never suggested I was the first one to say the word integral. It's in the record.

Colloquial metaphor as described in Wiki means informal metaphor, something a culture comes up with, that may be understood differently by others. The link I provided, which is dedicated to describing idioms, gave an informal, metaphorical definition of part and parcel as an important part of. Again, idioms are not a formal part of the english language.

I could state Cheerleading is Part and parcel of a winning football team, which doesn't mean it applies to all footballs teams in reality, or I could state that my house is part and parcel to the property it sits on, which means it specifically applies to my property and only my property. In both cases where I live, it is acceptable and understood by those that I am talking to. That's all that counts where I live, because that is what the communication device of an idiom is intended for.

In the case where people from various countries are listening in, such as this website, it is obvious that not all are going to understand an idiom in the same way. I live over a thousand miles from you. It's not the same place, and it is a fact that idioms are understood differently by local context as indicated in Wiki. It's something to consider when we are discussing this cross culturally.

The link I provided illustrates how idioms work perfectly, in determing the literal and metaphorical meanings. It illustrates that the metaphorical meaning of part and parcel is integral and that the literal meaning of part and parcel is not integral. It even gives one practice to understand this concept with several differnt examples.

You've evidenced that psychology today had an article that was controversial. That doesn't mean the magazine isn't reputable it means they published a controversial article. Magazines do that from time to time, it's not unusual.

The publication psychology today has been around for decades, their controversial article about tests on attractiveness of woman in specific races, is not any less controversial than to state that masculine faces in woman are less attractive than feminine faces in woman. People don't, like those kind of statements, they are taken personally; that is understandable, and they complain. It has nothing to do with the article I presented, though. If someone made an offensive comment about Ann Coulter that someone didn't like and they took it down, that's to their credit.

The article I presented was based on information from a medical doctor that participated in the Rainman movie. Look his name up on google, if you like, I already provided an article that verified what he stated, there are other sources available as well, with the same information. Wiki, has good information, but there is no requirement that they have all the information, until an individual provides it.

black and white thinking can also help self advocates.black and white thinking is a way of thinking,not good or bad.heavely emotion oriented thinking can have its draw backs too.im not sure what the star wars remark means but i asure you there are no wolverines in sebia,bulgaria or northwest turkey.5 or 600 miles northeast in the urals you will find a sustainable wolverine population

Wiki is not an authority on anything, it is just a collection of facts that must be supported and approved by using reputable third party sources, however they do provide more details on the symptoms of autism than the DSMIV, which is just a generalized description of the criteria.

Figurative language difficulties are the result of deficits in abstract reasoning not concrete/literal reasoning. It is commonly understood that indviduals with autism are strong in concrete reasoning abilities.

Some deficits in some areas and strengths in other areas, allow individuals to still score normal or above on IQ tests.

Deficits in abstract reasoning, doesn't mean an absence of the ability to do abstract reasoning. Without some abililty to do abstract reasoning or either concrete reasoning an individual would have a difficult time functioning at all life.

When you gave the cat example that is the type of abstract reasoning that autistic people tend to do okay on, concept identification. However deficits in concept formation, also a part of abstract reasoning are what underlies the problems of figurative language, and inference, as referenced in the Wiki article.

Abstract reasoning is directly associated with one's ability for inference. Not being able to understand that language is not to be taken literally is both a problem with abstract reasoning and the expression of difficulties of figurative language. However it is an issue of concept formation not concept identification.

The article I provided before explains the difference between concept identification and concept formation, how they are both a part of abstract reasoning, and provides evidence that autistic people perform better on concept identification than concept formation.

deficits in language are not caused by deficits abstract reasoning in autistic people.sensory overload,and experiecing moment to moment in a highly intense manor is the root cause of both poblems with speech and abstract reasoning

That sounds like the Intense World theory of Autism by Markham.

In general deficits in language and abstract reasoning can be caused by a variety of different reasons. Reasearch suggests that people with autism share difficulties with abstract reasoning, figurative language, along with comprehension and inference.

All these cognitive issues are related, what actually causes any of it in autism has not been definitively determined.

Overall some suggest that deficits in all of this is caused by problems with brain development, others suggest environmental factors, and as you bring to light an intense world as hypothesized by Markham. And of course many other theories as well.

Scientists suggest that difficulties in abstract reasoning may provide a cognitive explanation for the foundation of the symptom profile in autism. At this point though all scientists really know for sure is that these these deficits are associated with each other, and can be measured reliably in autistic individuals, using tests, according to the research.

Oh come on aghogday. Don't be so pedantic. I know that Wikipedia isn't actually an authority that sets diagnoses for mental disorders and so forth.
I was saying that the wiki was providing the description that you decided was better:



Good, because I didn't say this. I said what you were calling abstract reasoning isn't abstract reasoning.

Quite wrong I feel.

Inference, metaphor, all those things are a case not of concept formation but of layered thinking. Idioms and so forth are examples of phrases acting as substitutions of words that are themselves made of words with other meanings. Abstraction is taking a word and assigning it a meaning.

For many an autistic I feel that when introduced to the phrase they stick to what they know not because they are deficient but because they haven't been introduced to any such phrase and so forth and have no, say, internal compunction to seize the phrase's meaning that makes them guess at it.

I have seen many autistics analyse, invent, ponder, argue, be sarcastic, use humour and so forth. But where any such deficiencies lay it is a case of them learning it actively rather than 'feeling' for it.

As I already said I find it hard to believe that a deficit in abstract thinking, the foundation of human intelligence, somehow allows people to find autistics and standards of the same IQ and yet allows for people to say that the autistics lacked certain qualities of abstract thinking. I don't dispute what the scientists say at the end. I just dispute that it's abstract thinking as they believe.

markham isnt the only one who knows this.and ive been under the understanding that this theory is fact.read autism and sensing(the unlost instinct)by donna willams.autism means the volume is turned up to high.mental retardation means the volume is turned down to low.ret*d is latin for slowed down

I agree. The paper aghogday just provided suggested that young autistics have larger brains than usual near the end. It may have something to do with a change in size changing connections in the speech centre of the brain.


I am sure it does with you, and many others. Indeed I am sure the predilection to be stressed around NTs because of our different thinking patterns is a root cause of many of our issues.

Also anyone who complains about threads changing too much in content or going too slow doth protest too much.

I once was talking about how the sally-anne test was faulty as one thread starter and I ended up being compared to Hitler. That was fun.

I like the Intense World Theory of Autism, and see the merit in it. At this point though it is indeed just a theory. Some people support it and some people support other theories about Autism. It's very possible that many elements of many of these theories are correct to some degree.

I too prescribe to this theory. I also believe Uta Firth's ideas are often accurate.


I also believe this thread is hilarious.

I also believe someone is likely to be offended by all three of the previous sentences.

I also believe that anything I write is likely to be misinterpreted at at some point.

I also believe someone is bound to take this post, break it down into individual sentences, and analyze it until it does not make sense.

I also believe Gedrene will think take this post personally, and no matter how much I insist this it was not a personal attack, it will be referenced, dissected and overanalyzed as if it is a James Joyce novel.

I also believe in reincarnation... not really. That was a lie. I suppose I'm a liar.

i like uta frith too,he was one of the originals in the early 80's

Two more pints please.