Time to stand up against anti-cure
11 Mar 2011, 1:26 pm
Autism as a label is diagnosed by means of difficulty (criteria - symptomatology) and autism as a label never implied an entire person but was reinvented as the term autistic person instead of autistic disorder. The idea of curing autism means destroying the person through the womb and the entire personality and uniqueness of a person is propaganda based on abortion politics. Very few perceive a cure for autism means a brain transplant, personality reprogramming and or brain surgery in exception for those that make that up to cause reaction.
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The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com
11 Mar 2011, 1:32 pm
Sure I did. You think of autism as the entire person manifest by means of social conditioning. Autism is a label and does not imply the entire person. Therefore I was speaking about symptoms and the root meaning of cure means to heal and not destroy as what anti-cure comes up with for every interpretation of cure as a form of propaganda.
I have to goto my candle job now.
_________________
The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com
11 Mar 2011, 1:53 pm
Don't tell me what I think of Autism, because you're wrong.
The simple fact is wiring of the brain is what makes someone Autistic. Giving them speech therapy so they are no longer non-verbal doesn't change the wiring of the brain.
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11 Mar 2011, 3:23 pm
The wiring of the brain while can lead to severe symptoms does not always so wiring of the brain in autism is diverse. Why would a cure for speech problems be applicable to someone who does not have speech problems yet has wiring that that is said of autism. Also the wiring politics needs scientific review.
If you are viewing cure within scope of simply changing the wiring this is a mal-interpretation. Everyone has a unique wiring as a result of genetics to begin with. I never seen a cure based organization propose changing the wiring in the brain but speak about adverse symptoms. Regardless if you do not wish to benefit from said cure(s) for autism difficulties (disabilities) then no one can force you. However if you wish to demand a cure not be developed your going to have to goto the supreme court as you cannot remove that human right from myself and others due to notions of genetic genocides and discriminations.
I'd suspect everyone with autism has unique wiring and we are not clones of each-other. So you or other anti-cure (anti-treatment development) pride-mites don't have authority over my brain, mind and or human right choices due to dignity and other politics that seek to interfere. Just the same a cure-be does not have the right to impose treatments on someone that does not choose but the real problem here is the evasion of choice rights by means of identity based pride politics which will fail, have failed and will continue to fail to evade the choice for treatment advancements marketed as cures.
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The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com
11 Mar 2011, 3:31 pm
*sigh* I'm done. I don't like having my words twisted and I really dislike being told how I view things and what I feel.
I've said my piece. It's not my fault you choose to vilify me based on a twisted view of it.
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Still looking for that blue jean baby queen, prettiest girl I've ever seen.
11 Mar 2011, 3:33 pm
Please realize that the portion of the population that is severely autistic is .05 in 1000. MOST of those on the autism spectrum are higher functioning, in fact the overwhelming majority. The overwhelming majority of people on the spectrum are high functioning, the 1 in 167 with autism spectrum disorders is mostly people who are PDD-NOS. This parental minority of parents with severely autistic children should in no way speak on a subject which there is an adult majority who can speak perfectly well for themselves. They should have a minority voice on this issue.
Last night I saw Ray Kurzweil. You might want to look him up. He was probably one of the clearest Aspies I ever saw, he spoke in pendantics, was hyper-focused with his interest, and I can go on and on. He is also one of the single most brilliant inventors that ever lived. He is a huge figure in the blind community because he invented digital imaging technology that translates printed words to audio, he a man who is clearly an aspie, is treated like a hero. He has probably advanced humanity significantly more so than other people. Address issues in ways nobody else thought of through his interest in technology. Yes, he represents an extreme, but so does Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Bjork, and I can go on and on.
I am saying this because when you cure autism, it comes at a high cost for those who are high functioning who tend to make up the majority, and can have a potentially huge impact on society. Autism for most is not only deficits, but also gifts, sometimes extroidinary gifts. When you cure it these things that some people consider abnormal are often also central to the gifts of being on the spectrum. The incredibly memory, the brain hard wired for systemic thinking, the obsessive nature in focused interests, etc. Sometimes thes gifts are useless, but sometimes they are not, sometimes they change the world.
Additionally, you do realize that autism is the only disability where the predominate rights groups are not lead and controlled by people within that disability. This is a social justice issue, we have a right to speak for our own interests within the disability. The difference is unlike being blind or deaf there is significant upsides that come with being on the spectrum.
To me if you are pro-cure, you don't belong on this board and you don't belong in this movement. Am I anti-cure, DAMN RIGHT. I think parents have to big a role right now, and its people on the spectrum who should be controling the direction of the movement, not parents of kids who they will not quite understand thier potential or role in society yet. They are seeing the problems early on in childhood, with being completely unaware of the potential into adulthood. The impact to society by providing a cure can be absolutely devastating. We would be stuck in the stone ages as many of the technological improvements over the last 175 years were mostly made by people on the spectrum. Nuclear power, Aspies were central roles, I had this confirmed by an older psychologist who has been working the spectrum for years, computer technology, almost exclusively aspies, Electric power and Radio, everything suggests that Tesla was definately on the spectrum. I can go on and on and on. You cure Autism, you wipe out humanities potential to advance, the gifts of autism are intimately tied into its deficits. We may not fully understand the role of people who are on the spectrum yet. But it is not all bad.
Last I checked there is somebody on this board who is also a key engineer for intel, that is also on the spectrum.
So am I anti-cure. Damn right and get the hell off this board. You are not advocating for me, and you are not advocating for people on the spectrum. Yes some want treatment, but do not mistake treatment to cope with life better with a cure.
Why is the pro-cure BS bad. Well I will tell you why, because instead of treating Autism like a difference to be accepted and taught to be accepted, they are treating it like a disease to be cured. They treated homosexuality that way to, some people still do. At its core is bigotry and eugenics.
11 Mar 2011, 3:34 pm
I think you lost and will continue to lose. You want to say you oppose a cure for autism yet want to only seek one definition of that. Speech language therapy is a treatment so is a kind of cure. If you wish to say you are anti-cure ( opposition to a cure) then you should be prepared for all that implies within common sense. Anti-cure means to oppose treatments and treatment advancements and socio-politically many times this has to do with abortion politics and pride based genetics. I have never seen a proposition for cure imply they wish to re-wire my brain and perhaps your view is twisted in the first place and I'm rationalizing it and your not liking it.
_________________
The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com
11 Mar 2011, 3:43 pm
Last night I saw Ray Kurzweil. You might want to look him up. He was probably one of the clearest Aspies I ever saw, he spoke in pendantics, was hyper-focused with his interest, and I can go on and on. He is also one of the single most brilliant inventors that ever lived. He is a huge figure in the blind community because he invented digital imaging technology that translates printed words to audio, he a man who is clearly an aspie, is treated like a hero. He has probably advanced humanity significantly more so than other people. Address issues in ways nobody else thought of through his interest in technology. Yes, he represents an extreme, but so does Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Bjork, and I can go on and on.
I am saying this because when you cure autism, it comes at a high cost for those who are high functioning who tend to make up the majority, and can have a potentially huge impact on society. Autism for most is not only deficits, but also gifts, sometimes extroidinary gifts. When you cure it these things that some people consider abnormal are often also central to the gifts of being on the spectrum. The incredibly memory, the brain hard wired for systemic thinking, the obsessive nature in focused interests, etc. Sometimes thes gifts are useless, but sometimes they are not, sometimes they change the world.
Additionally, you do realize that autism is the only disability where the predominate rights groups are not lead and controlled by people within that disability. This is a social justice issue, we have a right to speak for our own interests within the disability. The difference is unlike being blind or deaf there is significant upsides that come with being on the spectrum.
To me if you are pro-cure, you don't belong on this board and you don't belong in this movement. Am I anti-cure, DAMN RIGHT. I think parents have to big a role right now, and its people on the spectrum who should be controling the direction of the movement, not parents of kids who they will not quite understand thier potential or role in society yet. They are seeing the problems early on in childhood, with being completely unaware of the potential into adulthood. The impact to society by providing a cure can be absolutely devastating. We would be stuck in the stone ages as many of the technological improvements over the last 175 years were mostly made by people on the spectrum. Nuclear power, Aspies were central roles, I had this confirmed by an older psychologist who has been working the spectrum for years, computer technology, almost exclusively aspies, Electric power and Radio, everything suggests that Tesla was definately on the spectrum. I can go on and on and on. You cure Autism, you wipe out humanities potential to advance, the gifts of autism are intimately tied into its deficits. We may not fully understand the role of people who are on the spectrum yet. But it is not all bad.
Last I checked there is somebody on this board who is also a key engineer for intel, that is also on the spectrum.
So am I anti-cure. Damn right and get the hell off this board. You are not advocating for me, and you are not advocating for people on the spectrum. Yes some want treatment, but do not mistake treatment to cope with life better with a cure.
Why is the pro-cure BS bad. Well I will tell you why, because instead of treating Autism like a difference to be accepted and taught to be accepted, they are treating it like a disease to be cured. They treated homosexuality that way to, some people still do. At its core is bigotry and eugenics.
Removing difficulty does not remove brilliance. This comes down to genetics and identity based politics. I am smart and I don't believe removing sensory overload which can be believed to be genetic based would remove my personality. When folks talk about curing autism I never believed they want to remove the good parts of me as I never thought of myself as entirely a label. The so called normal parts are the N.T parts, the gifted parts can be said as also typical as gifted is part of the typical community as well but it can be said that the said symptoms such as extreme hyper-focusing can be beneficial and not.
You can unwelcome me and others all you want. There has been years of bullying from pride folks (pride-mites). Yet when it comes down to it the intolerance for treatment advancements is discriminatory and an injustice and the intolerance of differences is just as discriminatory. As for the law, ethics and what is right individual choice supersedes these social politics. Extremes tend to alienate themselves and sometimes manifests as a form of separatism not desiring to coexist. Said defect can lead to feelings of inferiority met with notions of superiority to balance it out. Again no person is perfect, no genetics seem perfect and when hardship manifest it is a wholesome pursuit to attempt to improve that. To seek a cures is just the opposite of discrimination and to seek to evade that is dictating personal choice and individual human rights. This is an injustice.
_________________
The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com
Oodain
Veteran
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
11 Mar 2011, 4:15 pm
wait... what?
it is not about winning or losing, it is about a difference in perception of a concept.
when you speak of a cure, i and i presume some others, think of it as actually CURING something, not mitigating the effects it has on you.
morfin does wonders to remove the bain of a broken leg, but it wont cure the leg.
this is not said to attack morfin, all it says is that when they think of a cure, they probably think of something other than you.
listen if your speech therapy works, great keep at it, i hope it helps you.
if this is a cure to you, good.
but to me a cure would have to eliminate the syndrome completely to be called a cure, and i simply dont believe that this is possible, the biggest problem being, where is the baseline?
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//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
11 Mar 2011, 4:22 pm
@ ci
The problem is the cure is worse than the issues we put up with. Our autism is part of what makes us who we are. To try to take that away is to destroy ourselves in. Compensating for our weaknesses in certain areas is one thing, but trying to change us into someone else is something entirely different.
11 Mar 2011, 4:26 pm
Cure is to create improvements but if others interpret that as genocide, abortion and removing benefits from society always then that is an uncommon interpretation. Individuals may be born with a likelihood over the average to develop heart problems, brain problems and so on. No genetic is perfect but cures traditionally mean to remedy hardship. Autism is viewed by means of symptoms (differences) that are part of a person but autism is of course not the entire person as their are shared attributed amongst humans such as having a heart, lungs, feet and so on which are part of typical and even the minds of people with autism shared attributes with typical. Therefore to cure hardship which autism often is perceived to be the hardship in-spite of the manifest beneficialness there is nothing wrong with that. With bad is not always just bad but good and with just good there is no challenge so it could make for a boring life.
What has won, what has never lost and what will never lose is the right to treatment advancements. It's other political interest such as abortion politics that want to use the cure concept as a platform to make good people out to be neuro-bigots for another agenda. The true injustice is intolerance of differences when individuals cannot be changed by choice and the intolerance of choice itself to adapt and change. I'd think the extremes on both sides are not all pure and innocent but this is part of social and general human evolution.
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The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com
11 Mar 2011, 4:40 pm
The problem is the cure is worse than the issues we put up with. Our autism is part of what makes us who we are. To try to take that away is to destroy ourselves in. Compensating for our weaknesses in certain areas is one thing, but trying to change us into someone else is something entirely different.
It's a kind of circular cross reasoning. I've never experienced intolerance as what might be assumed. A lack of understanding for differences manifest yes. I have the inability to function least initially many times in typical environments due to my psychology and at times relating hardwiring which has been influenced in my developmental upbringing as one and the same in final projection. Hence what I know of myself at this time cannot easily separate the hardwire neurology from my psychological self and relating personality. Moreover the cultural incompatibility societally Id amuse this as the innate principles of normalcy in expectation whereas diversity inclusion thus a form of treatment for my said abnormality (lack of typicality manifest) would still hold intact my neurological and genetic foundation.
This topic is seemingly simple but goes on into the the sociological realm beyond that of said developmental impairment (difference). The autism is a substantial difference warranting understanding which by premise may at times at least be not life threatening like cancer for instance so as long as the basic abilities to care for oneself are present (which I receive services to assist with and have been hospitalize once before as a result) but disorder can be at times thereafter subject to socio-cultural interpretations and the inability for normalcy to make room (presumably non-malicious intolerance, diversity and relating inclusion) which can then be called part of treatment for inclusion and part of the sphere of cure.
I do not believe normalcy has an innate agenda against differences yet in a complex world it may seem indifferent to what is not typical. This can be cured by means of awareness so that a greater diversity is manifest within typicality. Typical in it's assumption and expectations is not aware of how to adapt itself to what collectively is part of the human race. It's not a conspiracy but a process and disorder can be least in part sometimes the result of a lack of societal adaption as a whole.
I hope you can understand this basic outline and framework in context.
_________________
The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com
11 Mar 2011, 5:08 pm
The problem is the cure is worse than the issues we put up with. Our autism is part of what makes us who we are. To try to take that away is to destroy ourselves in. Compensating for our weaknesses in certain areas is one thing, but trying to change us into someone else is something entirely different.
I am not against treatments, but confusing treatments with a cure is very different. I had occupational and visual therapy, it helped me deal with significant deficits. But I will not call this a cure.
The people who want to cure autism, want to eliminate it. Thats eugenics and bigotry plain and simple. Treating certian ASPECTS of autism I am all for, but that is not a cure. They want to wipe out everything about this, make thier kids "normal", as somebody stated, what is the baseline for normal? Autism when it gets down to it really is a difference which can have disabling aspects, but also aspects which can give a person extroidinary gifts. Again its not like we can't be productive members of society, in fact some of us even the minority, are extroidinary, making impacts most who are not on the spectrum cannot dream of making. When you are curing you are not only eliminating the low functioning, but also the potential for those who are not capable, but extremely gifted.
Humans vary significantly, when we are talking about curing autism, they are talking about wiping out a human variation that also caries significant benefits and is part of who we are, the bad and the good. Some of these benefits are beneficial for society, even if it is just a few. Giving parents the choice to "cure" is problematic because it takes away determination from the person impacted, and the right age to make a reasoned choice. Treating certian aspects is okay, but that is in no way a cure.
I should state why I am also anti-cure is because I have an intersex syndrome. There was alot of ugly things done to intersex people like forced genitial operations that had awful results to make kids more "normal". Again, ugly stuff because it was parents and doctors who pushed this stuff, the people who were actually intersex didn't get much of a say. I am using it as an example, because there is intersection with this topic. When you are talking about cures and even advocacy and research for these medical syndromes it is best to consult the people who have the difference FIRST and should be the guiding factor.
I should note that there is also a fact that as some pointed out, for these pro-cure types what they really want is pre-natal testing.
Oodain
Veteran
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
11 Mar 2011, 5:27 pm
The problem is the cure is worse than the issues we put up with. Our autism is part of what makes us who we are. To try to take that away is to destroy ourselves in. Compensating for our weaknesses in certain areas is one thing, but trying to change us into someone else is something entirely different.
I am not against treatments, but confusing treatments with a cure is very different. I had occupational and visual therapy, it helped me deal with significant deficits. But I will not call this a cure.
The people who want to cure autism, want to eliminate it. Thats eugenics and bigotry plain and simple. Treating certian ASPECTS of autism I am all for, but that is not a cure. They want to wipe out everything about this, make thier kids "normal", as somebody stated, what is the baseline for normal? Autism when it gets down to it really is a difference which can have disabling aspects, but also aspects which can give a person extroidinary gifts. Again its not like we can't be productive members of society, in fact some of us even the minority, are extroidinary, making impacts most who are not on the spectrum cannot dream of making. When you are curing you are not only eliminating the low functioning, but also the potential for those who are not capable, but extremely gifted.
Humans vary significantly, when we are talking about curing autism, they are talking about wiping out a human variation that also caries significant benefits and is part of who we are, the bad and the good. Some of these benefits are beneficial for society, even if it is just a few. Giving parents the choice to "cure" is problematic because it takes away determination from the person impacted, and the right age to make a reasoned choice. Treating certian aspects is okay, but that is in no way a cure.
I should state why I am also anti-cure is because I have an intersex syndrome. There was alot of ugly things done to intersex people like forced genitial operations that had awful results to make kids more "normal". Again, ugly stuff because it was parents and doctors who pushed this stuff, the people who were actually intersex didn't get much of a say. I am using it as an example, because there is intersection with this topic. When you are talking about cures and even advocacy and research for these medical syndromes it is best to consult the people who have the difference FIRST and should be the guiding factor.
I should note that there is also a fact that as some pointed out, for these pro-cure types what they really want is pre-natal testing.
brilliant post,
it is true that the society of today dont have the understanding neccesary to make choices like this for ANY other people, not untill we understand more.
if my parents had known i had AS when i was a younger they could have done so much damage compared to how well i function now.
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
11 Mar 2011, 5:30 pm
Common sense denotes research to develop treatments is for cures. Since Autism is so diverse one cure does not fit all. Individuals seeking prenatal testing for abortion is not about cure(s). However prenatal testing for early treatment is not about abortion but will lead to that choice making. That has to do with reproductive politics and a certain kind of early intervention. Just like with anti-cure pro-cure in some forms can go into other issues whilst representing those other issues.
Strickly speaking.
Cure - To develop treatments and implement them.
Non-Cure (Anti-cure) - to oppose treatments and there implementations.
Pro-Life - To preserve life and when applicable to oppose selective abortion.
Pro-Choice - To preserve women rights and when applicable to preserve selective choice making.
Scenarios & Comment Sense
Those interpreting treatments relevant to understanding autism as having the potential of abortion tend to dislike research for this other potential. The same kind of research that seeks to understand autism may as well be used for prenatal testing. Given the nature of the issue the anxieties of abortion can conflict with human rights for treatment developments where applicable.
Pro-cure but anti-selective choice - A person is pro-treatment yet opposes selective abortion.
Pro-cure - A person is pro treatment development and implementation while human rights are held intact under the law.
Pro-cure & Pro-Choice - A person is pro treatment and treatment development but supports in general abortion.
Anti-cure - A person opposes treatment development, treatment in general and likely selective choice abortion.
I wrote this rather fast as I am working on other projects so feel free to expand upon this general idea.
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The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com
