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Do you respect the right not to be called Autistic?
Yes - Each Individual Should Choose Identity priority and reference. 72%  72%  [ 23 ]
No - Stigmatize freely for political reasons and without respect to personal choice. 28%  28%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 32

draelynn
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29 Mar 2011, 12:15 pm

ci wrote:
I am sure it is important now that you use autism as a way to socially fit in better.


You think glider18 uses autism as a way to socially fit in better?! I'd really like to hear how that is possible...



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29 Mar 2011, 12:20 pm

maybe because autism linked him with wrong planet and now we can all cyber socialize?

Or Ci is shipwrecked... :twisted:



ci
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29 Mar 2011, 12:51 pm

I will explain self-centered. It is not like when others call others self-centered traditionally as in your being selfish like you want more cake and not share. This is a special context in a unique circumstance. If you have reinvented autism for your own usage in politics people are going to disagree with you. When you say autism is not a disability you are essentially mocking people that experience the disability and when you say you don't want sympathy when you use the autism label for your own social purposes you are also mocking the disability others experience. You are very high functioning so why would you want to reinvent autism for social recreational purposes and seek to downplay the disability others experience for social purposes. It seems to be your using the disability others have when you have a very mild form of it but doing a disservice to them as if they do not experience hardship just because your may be embarrassed of them. Perhaps it would do you a good service to spend time with those that have classic forms of autism or those that because of autism are not well integrated.


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ci
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29 Mar 2011, 1:04 pm

Sallamandrina wrote:
glider18 wrote:
I am not self-centered---that should be evident in the way I have treated the members of this community.

Your actions speak for you and along the years you were one of the people who put a lot of effort and thought in your posts and always showed concern and a desire to help and support others. A lot of members here highly appreciate your contribution.

glider18 wrote:
You wanted people's opinions on this thread (and many other threads), and it would be best if you could respect those opinions without putting members down. You have attacked me personally (which is unfair and against the rules of the WP).

Correct. Ci, please stop making assumptions about other people's struggles and difficulties. You really can't tell what someone else is going through and what price they paid for their seemingly "fairly normal" life.


It is a fundamental threat to say autism is not a disability. Don't you think this is insulting to others? To downplay the disability like this? It's mockery and it is not an assumption of mine but one the poster wrote about autism not being a disability. Saying autism is not a disability is definitely a threat and a put down to those that experience the disability. It's as well an assumption.


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ci
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29 Mar 2011, 1:06 pm

draelynn wrote:
ci wrote:
I am sure it is important now that you use autism as a way to socially fit in better.


You think glider18 uses autism as a way to socially fit in better?! I'd really like to hear how that is possible...


It was well outlined by him his reasons for socially using autism which is not a problem at all. Also people use it here to fit in as well. I know those with autism that don't at all use autism fit in because it would seem they have little social interest to and are quite obviously of autism.


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ci
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29 Mar 2011, 1:09 pm

Kail wrote:
Dearest ci...

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge in the field of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.

and knowledge is one of the finest attributes of man - though often it is most loudly voiced by those who strive for it the least.

It is abhorrent to me when a fine intelligence is paired with an unsavory character.

.. inspired by Albert Einstein.


Everyone makes judgement and gods to do not exist. Even Einsteinian has questions with regard to god(s) existing or not. Judgement is part of everyday life. This was one of his fun quotes.

If my desire was to be popular I'd simulate all the niche beliefs, sayings and assumption. I'd blend in seamlessly.


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draelynn
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29 Mar 2011, 1:13 pm

I'm not sure I can agree that finding a like minded group of people for online chat constitutes 'using' his autism. When phrased that way is sounds very negative and condescending. Autism certainly has not facilitated his 'live action' social agenda. I know finding WP was a means of last resort for me - it was a final admission that I did, indeed, fail in the real world to make and maintain human contact. I'm not sure I'd consider it 'using' autism... that sort of implies dishonest behavior to gain some undeserved benefit.



ci
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29 Mar 2011, 1:21 pm

draelynn wrote:
I'm not sure I can agree that finding a like minded group of people for online chat constitutes 'using' his autism. When phrased that way is sounds very negative and condescending. Autism certainly has not facilitated his 'live action' social agenda. I know finding WP was a means of last resort for me - it was a final admission that I did, indeed, fail in the real world to make and maintain human contact. I'm not sure I'd consider it 'using' autism... that sort of implies dishonest behavior to gain some undeserved benefit.


It was in reply to gliders story. I thought it was good. However stating autism is not a disability I believed to be self-centered. Perhaps it should have been a private PM but I feel it is important. It does not make him a evil :twisted: person. In context to social purposes of autism once you use it and say it is not a disability you got to be subjective. It's not a disability for him but to say autism is not a disability all together because someone is using it for social reasons it downplays the disability others experience because of autism. Some people that have very mild autism seem perfectly content and are integrated in a way that they seamlessly are able to function in said normalcy in their specialty. These are unique circumstances and these circumstances in their own lives obviously cannot be the grand judgement for everyone else.

If one does experience a disability but is perfectly content after thought about the disability he or she may avoid seeing the disability as a disability. This can be part of coping. To center oneself in their own interest with the label and place implied judgement on all those with the label then to say it is not a disability is simply not true.

I hope this helps.


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draelynn
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29 Mar 2011, 1:36 pm

ci wrote:
It was in reply to gliders story. I thought it was good. However stating autism is not a disability I believed to be self-centered. Perhaps it should have been a private PM but I feel it is important. It does not make him a evil :twisted: person. In context to social purposes of autism once you use it and say it is not a disability you got to be subjective. It's not a disability for him but to say autism is not a disability all together because someone is using it for social reasons it downplays the disability others experience because of autism. Some people that have very mild autism seem perfectly content and are integrated in a way that they seamlessly are able to function in said normalcy in their specialty. These are unique circumstances and these circumstances in their own lives obviously cannot be the grand judgement for everyone else.

If one does experience a disability but is perfectly content after thought about the disability he or she may avoid seeing the disability as a disability. This can be part of coping. To center oneself in their own interest with the label and place implied judgement on all those with the label then to say it is not a disability is simply not true.

I hope this helps.


I actually agree with everything you've said here - for a change! It seems to sum up this entire conversation nicely.

But it doesn't really address what I was getting at. :lol:

Here, and in the original comment I originally commented on I was stopped by certain words - 'using' and 'self centered'. Usually these are very condescending in normal conversation. By your reaction I'm inferring the meaning to be more like 'utilizing' rather than 'using' and 'ego centric' rather than 'self centered'. I hope I am correct there. Things seems to have gotten a bit inflamed over the 'self centered' usage. I read some negative intent in the use of the word 'using' as well.

You know me - just clarifying. :wink:



ci
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29 Mar 2011, 1:40 pm

I said I didn't want to be mean about it. Perhaps balancing with a positive statement.


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glider18
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29 Mar 2011, 1:54 pm

glider18 wrote:
I view autism as a difference with challenges. I gladly accept my challenges because with it comes fascinating positives. I have social awkwardness, I have sensory issues, I often take things literally, I stim a lot, etc.


Hmmm, seems like I did address I have challenges (that some call disorders/ disabilities, etc.) Perhaps the post should be re-read.

I will not be replying to anymore posts on this, but I did want this to be known.


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ci
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29 Mar 2011, 1:56 pm

Then merely a coping mechanism and false fact of autism not being a disability. Differing minority groups have infighting. This infighting is unique because it's about coping with a disability. Should awareness center around self-esteem or curing the disability aspects. These are the fundamental questions and concerns at play here and dividing points.

A guy ego does not want sympathy it is considered pity.

Beating on ones chest is symbolic of macho man ego.


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Sallamandrina
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29 Mar 2011, 2:26 pm

ci wrote:
It is a fundamental threat to say autism is not a disability. Don't you think this is insulting to others? To downplay the disability like this? It's mockery and it is not an assumption of mine but one the poster wrote about autism not being a disability. Saying autism is not a disability is definitely a threat and a put down to those that experience the disability. It's as well an assumption.

It's an opinion actually. You might feel threaten by it or disagree but nobody threaten you.

ci wrote:
A guy ego does not want sympathy it is considered pity.

Beating on ones chest is symbolic of macho man ego.


Do you really believe in such stereotypes? 8O This is not the jungle, you know.

Sympathy doesn't entail pity, fake sympathy does. A confident self assured person doesn't need to assert themselves over others in a demonstrative way, weak people need such a display to hide their insecurities. In my experience, the weaker they are the more noise they make.

This discussion is getting absurd, regardless of your intentions you're not allowed to insult others by assuming they're using their label to get an advantage or tell them they are being self-centred. End of story.


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ci
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29 Mar 2011, 4:59 pm

Typically a male does not want to be perceived inferior. It could explain some of the absurd conflict. I've been attacked for the compassionate use of words definitely. Although there is no general explanation in totality for relevant behavior I think it is becoming more understandable. If someone says autism is not a disability yet described the difficulties it seems quite clear the issue is at source confusing yet by legal definition autism is a disability and in day to day life many experience the disability and exclusion.

The self-centered remark was not about insulting the person. It was about looking at the person as the center of the label and the definition. Folks told me to look up the definition and it declares one being absorbed and the word is "center" and "self". Had I used it to be insulting I would have made clear the insult and even said I do not want to be mean. Yet because of the nature of the conversation and it being very positive I am not sure why a word that can be used as an insult like a mother toward a child saying it but in this context in relation to the label it would be considered the same but nothing was to be gained in the context such as more cake then others at a party leaving some without cake.

It was a self-centered deceleration of autism not being a disability when collectively apparently it is. I realize the issue is sensitive and pride typically disdains compassion and sympathy towards pride but these are the root conflicts socially. How can one be viewed innately as equal as anyone else but be said as of defect since birth. A self-centered definition of autism is not subjective enough to the whole thus to say autism is not a disability just from ones own point because of how one experiences it is not enough evidence.

The stereotypical use of a phraseology as an insult does not denote in this context insult.


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aghogday
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29 Mar 2011, 6:29 pm

ci wrote:
Typically a male does not want to be perceived inferior. It could explain some of the absurd conflict. I've been attacked for the compassionate use of words definitely. Although there is no general explanation in totality for relevant behavior I think it is becoming more understandable. If someone says autism is not a disability yet described the difficulties it seems quite clear the issue is at source confusing yet by legal definition autism is a disability and in day to day life many experience the disability and exclusion.

The self-centered remark was not about insulting the person. It was about looking at the person as the center of the label and the definition. Folks told me to look up the definition and it declares one being absorbed and the word is "center" and "self". Had I used it to be insulting I would have made clear the insult and even said I do not want to be mean. Yet because of the nature of the conversation and it being very positive I am not sure why a word that can be used as an insult like a mother toward a child saying it but in this context in relation to the label it would be considered the same but nothing was to be gained in the context such as more cake then others at a party leaving some without cake.

It was a self-centered deceleration of autism not being a disability when collectively apparently it is. I realize the issue is sensitive and pride typically disdains compassion and sympathy towards pride but these are the root conflicts socially. How can one be viewed innately as equal as anyone else but be said as of defect since birth. A self-centered definition of autism is not subjective enough to the whole thus to say autism is not a disability just from ones own point because of how one experiences it is not enough evidence.

The stereotypical use of a phraseology as an insult does not denote in this context insult.


Glider18 made it clear that his view of Autism was a personal one shared by others, but not a concrete definition of Autism that applies to all. His view was expressed in a fair manner with respect to those that experience autism differently than himself.

The way he presented his views is opposite of anything that would normally be considered self-centered; not many people in an internet discussion show consideration of those that hold different views.

We all have views that are different than others, but that in itself, does not make a person self centered. "Self-Centered" can be considered an insult toward another person whether or not it is directly stated or indirectly stated. Particularly, when it is evident that the person takes the time and effort to respect other peoples opinions, as in the case of Glider 18.

Also, he made it clear that he has been able to fit in with Autism, not that he used Autism to fit in. Consider if a person was blind and was able to fit; it certainly could be seen as offensive to suggest that the person used his blindness to fit in.

I value your opinions, Nathan, just trying to help clarify the situation from my own personal point of view.



ci
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29 Mar 2011, 6:40 pm

aghogday wrote:
Glider18 made it clear that his view of Autism was a personal one shared by others, but not a concrete definition of Autism that applies to all. His view was expressed in a fair manner with respect to those that experience autism differently than himself


Yes one that was self-centered. Based on self and the definition of autism centered on self. My only concern was the usage of the phrase autism is not a disability. I think it might help others more with concern to the understanding that is needed for social services for instance if people say their form of autism is not disabling to them. Would make sense to say this vs. autism is not a disability which is wrong.


aghogday wrote:
Also, he made it clear that he has been able to fit in with Autism, not that he used Autism to fit in. Consider if a person was blind and was able to fit; it certainly could be seen as offensive to suggest that the person used his blindness to fit in.


He stated in so many words saying he has autism makes people treat him nice. What is seems to be what is. My angle of the conversation is the two points of the social usage of autism in reference to self (centering the usage of autism on self) and saying autism is not a disability is an injustice. The bias of this is of course someone does not want to be perceived defective socially.

While I can understand the psychology of this I do not know why anyone else is not feeling compelled to correct the individual. If people say autism is not a disability then folks will take away community integration and support for people with autism who are disabled and are clearly not as adaptive as him or others. It's why this whole pride thing is both mal-productive many times and conflict orientated. It's a self-esteem thing but the right to dignity does not supersede a collective truth as there was no differentiation between his autism and other peoples autisms in declared usage in the story.

Pride can be so wrong headed and harmful.


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