I am reporting child abuse

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If I am reading it right, the OP seems to believe (and rightfully so) that some parents are inflicting more harm on their child than help through their actions. Munschausen by proxy means the parents are deliberately inducing symptoms in their child or claiming false symptoms in their child to gain sympathy.

I admit this is probably very rare, but it probably does go on in a minority of cases.

I agree that it happens. And I agree it is serious. But the issue here is with the fact that he is doing a POLICE REPORT. I mean, when you do a report, you are reporting some specific incident involving a very specific group of people, not just a general phenomenon -- no matter how serious that phenomenon might be.

Yes, there needs to be specific evidence. I agree with you there. If the OP has specific, well-documented evidence, then he is entitled to report, but if there is no clear evidence, no matter how true the accusations may be, nothing will come of it.

I didn't have the impression that anybody was interrogating you. It's simply that the information in your posts is buried between somewhat repetitive explanations of MSbP (Münchausen syndrome by proxy) and complaints about the lack of support groups in your area, which makes it hard to tell what precisely you're concerned about.

I think it would help if you put it into a format like this: "I suspect that a person in my neighborhood / autism support group is abusing their child. The child is supposedly autistic, but I think the kid is instead suffering from PTSD as a result of abuse. I fear that this parent has MSbP and deliberately inflicts psychological damage on the kid in order to satisfy a twisted addiction to medical attention. Where can I report something like this? Should I contact the FBI?"

Psychological and emotional abuse is real child abuse. I have been to a co-dependence support group, and people at that meeting will agree with this. Even when there is emotional abuse alone without the existence of physical abuse, it has resulted in very low self esteem. Emotional abuse from a parent is absolutely child abuse. Anyone who would disagree with this is likely to be either a troll on this website or a parent that is inflicting this abuse.

Teachers get fired for being emotionally abusive to their students. When such a case gets into the news it is usually because of the support and encouragement from the parents.

For 12 years I have tried to find a local Autism/Asperger support group that is literally for Autistics. There is absolutely no local support group. There needs to be one. When I try to start my own support group it gets sabotaged. How can that possibly happen? I will say how. I tried to start a support group and list it on meetup. I did everything I possibly can to specifically say this is an Autism/Asperger support group meeting specifically for Autistics. This is not a parent group. I would not turn away any Autistic person that needs help getting to a meeting from a parent. Meetup displays members who RSVP to attend a meeting. For my group, they were listed as "parents" attending. I DID NOT DO THIS. I DID NOT IN ANY WAY SPECIFY THAT MEMBERS WOULD BE CALLED PARENTS. I have never seen for any other meetup group where members were called parents. For my group, that is exactly what happened. There was nothing listed in the group options that would let me change that.

There is a local Asperger group near where I live. I need exactly that. I need a safe zone meeting where I am completely understood and is a refuge from the outside world where I am treated like crap. This meeting is run by and attended my mothers of young children. These mothers claim that I am violating their space. Without even saying that they are being intimidated by a man the simple fact that they say claim I am disrupting the meeting becomes that because I am a man.

These mothers don't include the participation of their children. There are no parents of adult children participating at this meeting. There is no existing support group where parents of adult children have formed their own meeting. WHY??? Someone has to ask why. If there were any parents of adult children at this meeting or if parents of adult children formed their own meeting, it might be a little bit easier to talk to them and say lets get together and have a support group for the adult children. The behavior of the parents of young children running their own support group meetings has to be called into question when there is no existence of parents of adult children participating in any existing support group meeting.

This Asperger meeting meets at:
St. Luke's Hospital
Room 105
Priscilla Payne Hurd Education Center
Fountain Hill, PA
The second Monday of the month at 7:00 p.m.
610-882-4046

Okay, let me break it down more clearly exactly where you are being vague. We all agree that

1. Emotional abuse is a crime just like any other abuse, and it should be reported if it happens

2. In fact, it happens many times that parents inflict emotional abuse on the child

What we are asking, however, is something different. Namely, we want to know

3. Do you know NAMES of the SPECIFIC parent(s) that were abusive in a way you describe

Of course, you don't have to post the names online because of privacy issues. But when you make report to FBI, they would expect you to give them some specific names of specific people you want to be investigated. If you don't provide any names and just talk about general issues, FBI won't be able to do anything about it.

Let me help me out. You mentioned specific people twice;

4. When you wanted to start a meetup group, you only wanted patients, but some parents joined instead.

5. When you tried to join the local Asperger group, some parents told you you were unwelcome

Now, you never mentioned that either 4 or 5 has anything to do with child abuse. Child abuse is 1, 2 and 3. The items 4 or 5 are completely separate topic, the one involving them abusing YOU, not their children. Or are you saying that the parents involved in 4 and 5 ALSO happened to be involved in 1 and 2? If so, you should say so -- so far you haven't.

First tell me who you are. What is your part on this website?

Mitt Romney is being called cold, calculating and robotic. I agree with that. What do you think of Mitt Romney?

I think I am a little bit pissed because you ask me for specific names and then tell me I don't have to tell you. I don't mind answering questions. But there are some questions you asked me I have already answered so clearly that I wonder what your purpose is to ask me questions that I have already explained.

Hello to you, "MyCats". I have not posted on this topic yet, but I have been reading it. Now I do believe you, that it is possible that something terrible has happened. However, your thoughts are not making sense. I have experienced the feeling of thoughts not making sense, and it was very similar to the way you are communicating here. If you are not getting any help from support groups, then see a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist helped me get my thoughts together by giving me some medication. When the thoughts had settled down, I was able to get people to listen to me about my concerns. I am a 30year old woman from Australia, a normal citizen, like you. I know that you will probably not trust me right now, but I hope you can see that my concern is genuine.

I am ordinary member, nothing more than that.



As a Christian I am more in favor of Ron Paul than Mitt Romney.



When I mentioned names I was simply trying yet another way to show you exactly why no one understands you. Like I said, you don't have to post any names on this forum if you don't want to. The only thing I am asking -- for your own benefit -- is: when you were talking to FBI, were you able to provide any names? Because if you didn't, I don't see how they can possibly respond. We are not FBI, you don't have to tell names to us; but you do have to tell names to them when you are going there and talking to them.

Okay let me give you an example. I believe I was mistreated by certain professors at a certain school. I am not going to give you names of these professors for privacy reasons. But if I were to decide to write a report on them then yes I would be able to put their names on my report (notice the words ''if'' and ''then'' in what I just said -- same applies to you). Now, the reason I ''would'' be able to give names is because I am not talking about some general world wide problem, I am talking about a specific situation involving very specific people. My question to you is -- are you also talking about something specific or are you talking about something general. I tried to phrase it in so many different ways yet you seem not to understand it; so mentioning names is yet another way to phrase it to try to make it clear what it is you are being vague on.

Let me try yet another way to explain this to you. I personally believe that the practice of electro-convulsive therapy by psychiatrist is a big mistake. But I can't report it to FBI simply because it involves far too many people for the report to be specific. On the other hand, the situation with the electroshock of SPECIFIC person -- Elizabeth Ellis (http://www.mindfreedom.org/shield/ellis-ect) was reported and dealt with. The key is that it involved ONE person, not a wide phenomenon. The question to you is: do you have any SPECIFIC individuals that are examples of the general issue of parent abuse you are discussing? Just like I mentioned Elizabeth Ellis as a specific individual example of a general issue of psychiatry abuse?

I mean, when you are making a report to FBI, presumably you want them to do something about it. Now, if you are telling them about one specific parent abusing one specific child, there is a number of things they can do: they can make a court order for this parent to do/ stop doing specific things to their child, they can take the child under the custody of another parent, and so forth. On the other hand, when you are talking about the general issue involving millions of different parents, there is nothing they can do. They can't make any court order directed to millions of parents. If you want better laws, then you should be writing to legislature, not FBI. If you are writing to FBI you want them to ENFORCE the laws for the SPECIFIC CASE of some specific person; which is why I keep asking you -- do you have one in mind?



First of all I don't have any purpose. I am just a member of this forum just like anyone else. I have no personal interest in this case other than wanting to help you.

Secondly, you THINK you answered questions very clearly but actually you haven't. What was happening is that you said X. Then people asked you Y. Then you didn't understand that they were asking Y, and instead you decided they were asking X. So you explained X in far more detail. But you still haven't answered Y. So people again ask you to tell them about Y. But you again misunderstand and think they ask you about X so you explain X yet again. Then you get frustrated as to why you answered X so many times and people are still asking it. But what you don't seem to get is that no one asks you X, we are asking Y!

Now, the item X in the above stands for some general things you said -- such as the fact that emotional abuse is still abuse, the fact that parents abuse children, and how that abuse happens. That is all fine and well. But the question Y is: ARE YOU REPORTING ANY INDIVIDUAL ABUSERS OR JUST SOMETHING REALLY GENERAL. You never answered this part no matter how many times we asked. You just repeat over and over the part about abuse, without ever mentioning who it is you are reporting. So we have parallel conversation.

OK, now a new person getting involved here may bring a good new perspective to the front line, or it may make this whole thread more complicated. What I will say is the thing has given me a headache, and that Roman is definitely speaking sense.

You are using one thread for at least two very different things!

1. Child abuse, specifically emotional, and yes, we all agree that is a form of abuse. Happy? What we don't know is if you mean in general, or if it is a specific case, or if you're trying to discuss what a problem MSbP is in America.

2. The fact that you cannot seem to find an autism support group in your area that is just for you (as in, adults only).

I also think you need to understand you're acting quite rashly, and perhaps you are offending people with over defensive replies to comments when they mean no harm.

I am ready to be showered under the torrent of abuse you seem to be giving almost everyone who is innocently trying to help. Try and remember nobody here is a nazi.

mycats

I can tell from your post that you are angry and concerned. But, like the other members who have posted in this thread, I'm a little unsure as to exactly what you suspect these parents have done.

You mention Munchausen's syndrome by proxy, which I am very familiar with. I also know that it is notoriously difficult to prove, which is why your accusations need to be very clear. Why do you suspect these parents have abused their children in this way? Do you have any evidence? Have you witnessed any abuse? Has anyone told you of anything that has caused you to suspect this? Can you give some examples?

You also mention emotional and psychological abuse. Again, can you give any examples.

I would really like to help you to get this story straight for the authorities.

If everything I have said confuses everyone, then any attempt I could make to clarify will only be more confusion.

I live in an area where the only existing Autism support groups are only run by and attended by parents.

Any existing Autism/Asperger support group that is actually for people that are Autistic or Asperger is more than 30 miles away, and I don;t presently have a car.

I want a local support group for me. Is anyone confused so far. When I say the words "for me", and if I should get an accusation being selfish, then you are already confused.

When I say I want a local support group for me, that means I want a local Autism/Asperger support group that is for ALL of the local Autistic/Asperger people themselves who choose to go to the meeting if they want to go to it.

There is no existing local Autism/Asperger support group. So I go to the only thing that exists which is a parent run Autism or Asperger support group in an attempt to say there is there is no place else to go and that I would like to get into existence an real Autism/Asperger support group that is literally for people who are actually Autistic and Asperger.

12 years go by of parents going to their own support group meeting never giving a single thought to the urgent need for an Autism support group that is actually for the actual people that the name of the support group is supposed to be about. After 12 years of this BS, that is why when I cannot think of any other solution to this problem, I say that these parents are negligent enough to qualify as abuse.

1. Is there anyone reading this who is Autistic and or Asperger who lives in a region where the nearest REAL Autism/Asperger support group is more than 30 miles away?
2. Is there anyone reading this who is not satisfied with online community and urgently needs to go to a real life real world Autism/Asperger meeting.

Please only people who can relate to those two conditions, It is only those people I want to hear any response from.

If you do not meet those conditions, only say something that is helpful to solving my problem which is wanting to form a local Autism/Asperger support group.

Lol, you have a point.

I don't attend an Asperger's support group but my dad used to attends this "parent meeting" for autism every single week which was absolutely absurd, because I don't even believe I have Asperger's syndrome.

Yes, it's kind of ridiculous when the parents have a meeting and you don't. Ludicrous actually.

An interesting post about a mother who killed her son and herself was posted under one of the other sections (it was either current events or PPR, I forgot). It basically just proves your point. This mother while not physically harming her child was emotionally harming him by simply being a hateful, incompetent parent. The whole family needed help in that particular case.

On a tangent though. I'm not sure what you should. That really sucks that you have no close autism groups for you that are actually meant for people with autism.

mycats

I'm only trying to get to the bottom of these Munchausen by proxy claims that you make. You've given no examples of the abuse claims, so how can anyone be expected to understand? Anyone should be able to respond to your post. Child abuse is everyone's business.

Yes maybe the Munchausen by proxy should be explained more.

Yes your right child abuse is everyone's business and everyone should respond to it whoever wants to.

It is very exhausting trying to form a real support group completely out of thin air when nothing exists near me and not finding anyone local that gives a damn about this to help me.

I am too tired now to be able to explain anything further because I have been up for 19 hours.

It is very likely I had Aspergers Syndrome to begin with. With the presence of lifelong emotional abuse from my mother, it may be impossible to know for sure. It is very likely that having Aspergers to begin with marked me as being a victim.

It is very involved to try to define Muchausen syndrome by proxy. There is definitely abuse happening to Autistics. It is not just child abuse. There is continuous abuse as adults.

When I see an Asperger support group that is dysfunctional, what am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to start my own group or do I make the existing one better.

The Asperger support group is all about parents of young children. Someone has to tell these parents that their children have to be involved in speaking for themselves. The children need their own support group and they need to be involved in saying what services they need.

It has to be investigated why no parents of adult children exist at the meetings and why parents of adult children have not formed their own separate meeting. I don't know what is happening in other regions but the Lehigh Valley is really screwed up. The Lehigh Valley is a very prejudiced place to live as an Autisic person and the parents of Autistics in this area don't even have the capability to even have Autistics be inclusive in the dysfunctional parent run Autism meetings.

I have tried over and over again to reason with the parents that run these Autism meetings. I have tried to do this for 12 years. These people cannot be reasoned with. Don't tell me what the f*****g protocol is to make a report to the FBI. I will do what ever I have to do to change the f*****g system.