What's wrong with these performances?

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The judges on both occasions told me that they didn't feel like "I was talking to them" while I sang. And other stuff about my eyes not doing the right thing. I really do not understand what they mean.
From my perspective I was feeling it quite strongly, and I was sure it was a good performance.
I wonder if people on the spectrum might get it better. Maybe I express myself in a way that does not relate to neurotypicals.

It's in french though (I write all my songs in french, it's my maternal language).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKIqkDf950o[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDLRePF0ZQc[/youtube]

Well, I'll start off by saying that live music is a performance art, more than anything else. People enjoy live performances not just for the music, but getting to see the musicians in person, and all the energy and emotion they put into their work that goes with it.

From watching both videos, I noticed some major things about your performances:

1. Your posture is very stiff and you just don't look like you're relaxed or particularly calm.
2. You're not looking anywhere other than straight at the camera or straight ahead.
3. You don't use the stage space given to you effectively; you just stay in one spot the whole time (not applicable to the piano piece, of course).

Yes, bit of rigidity, not dancing enough, or whatever you're supposed to do. I'm sure there's a specialist of some sort who could teach you. It won't be easy to maintain, but it should be doable for a few minutes at a time.

Nothing, so far as I'm concerned, though I don't especially like the style. But the others are probably right.

The issue is NOT you or your performance in particular.

The issue is whether it was what THEY were looking for. I've seen plenty of extremely successful performers perform exactly as you did in both videos, and they're doing just fine.

The question is what was this audition for? What were the judges looking for? What was their ultimate goal?

My feeling is that what you have to offer just wasn't what they were looking for. So what? I don't see anything wrong at all with your performance. I do think the kind of audience that appreciates what you do is somewhat of a "niche" audience. What you need to do is figure out who they are, and aim your act and promotional efforts toward that kind of people. If these judges, like the judges of shows like American Idol and similar shows, are looking for someone to fill the role of "major star," I would say that isn't what you do. But, I like what you do. I can't stand acts whose sole goal is to please the masses.

I much prefer singers who sing to the audience as if every member is a friend, not just some groupie who'll wear another one of their t-shirts.

Don't know if you'll appreciate the message of this singer/songwriter, but I found your delivery style (not the musical style, of course) to be very similar to this guy's.

And he's one of my favorites. Definitely my all-time favorite lyricist. I think your delivery is a lot like his, and he's done quite well for himself.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbWRfBZY-ng[/youtube]

So: I look nervous. For sure I was! First time in front of so many people, and to top it off there was a lot a stake. Judges judging; big money prize and lots of recognition for winning.

But that in of itself is to be expected. Ontop of it I was not facing an audience that had come to see me personally. And yes my music is very niche, you're right. The lyrics are worse: I talk about death in a surreal, with vivid imagery. Lots of people got it and loved it though (not the judges), they came to me after and opened up about their death and loss stories.

The rest is pretty much what I was told : the weird posture is always there (nervous or not), and I cannot dance at all. Also not looking at the audience was seen as a big no no. I wasn't just not looking at the sides, I was looking at nothing in particular. My visual cortex was turned inward. I was IN the song, IN what I was talking about. But I was also trying to move around to follow the desires of the stage director. She told me the same thing: use the space you are given. Which confused me because needlessly moving around felt very unnatural. Oh and in the piano performance, I wasn't looking at the camera, matter of fact I don't even remember the camera. It was a coincidence that my eyes sorta pointed toward it, you know like when you're looking nowhere in particular out in the bus and the guy in front yells at you because he thinks you're staring at him. I do admit that it looks strange to stare "at" the camera so much. :\

Which is what I was doing, I was baring my heart to them, I felt it really strongly. My goal was not mindless entertainment. I wanted to make the people feel things that are deeper than just "yay, I'm having fun." I wanted to convey a message I suppose. Which brings me to the very cool example of James McMurty. Instead of "prostituting" myself and try to fake being an extroverted, outgoing, socially confident person, playing fun music, singing and dancing, laughing with the crowd, etc. Which is what the judges wanted, judging from the actual winners. In north america, we glorify that type of personality. To fake that is cheap and something I cannot do anyway.

I think this has convinced me to go the way of mister McMurty. Sings his song the way he wants to, conveys a strong message. Does not dance or use ANY kind of artifice to please the audience, the song, his musical and singing abilities and the strong lyrics sell it by a long shot, there is no need for extra fluff. He does his thing raw and direct. I love that. He doesn't write/sing/play his songs to please anyone, he does so because he has something to say.
If that leaves me in fringe, only suitable for a minority, for a select niche market: so be it.

I'm done listening to the drivel contest-judges lay on me for not being Bono or [insert any extroverted neurotypical pop star]. I'm done listening to the artistic/stage directors who tell me to sing like I'm talking to them, to lose myself in the words (I'm an extreme non-verbal thinker, losing myself in the words mean nothing to me, I just see a bunch of huge letters standing around me like a forest of nonsense.) I work in images, and in surreal intense interpretations.
And yes, I want a real connection to the people I sing to. I do not want mindless groupies (not that I have any!)



I just need to find people like you who don't look for the same generic stuff. And who likes the musical style.

Key words are true, raw and direct.

Thanks a lot for the feedback everyone (all of you)!
It really made me think long and hard and I figured out what I should do.

cornelius6,

I've been writing songs and recording them for twenty years, but I've NEVER performed. All my stuff sits on hard drives now (used to be only on dusty cassette's I hardly ever let anyone listen to.

My musical and writing style is probably nothing like yours, but one there is one thing about my music I've known for a long time now, that I didn't at first.

My music is extremely niche. I think you're is too, but not as much so as my own. I do think there are a lot more people who can identify with what you do than would me. I could be just knocking myself though.

What I'm getting at though, is that I know for certain that if I ever did get up in front of any talent show judges, they would NOT like my performance, and probably not the songs either. And that's because people like them are never looking for niche artists. They want artists with wide appeal that are easy to sell. That's the bottom line.

For people like you and me, the big question is "How passionate are we about our art?" Are you driven to do it no matter what anyone says? Then just keep doing it. Your audience is out there. You just said so. They were there! And it wasn't the judges. Go where the positive responses are. Keep following them, and you will find more of it.

Me? I started twenty years ago, but a few years into it, I met my wife. I have a family now, and so far not enough drive to get on stage. At least you did that much. Don't let crap like this drag you down. so the judges didn't like you? Great! That's a good thing! It's good because not only did you learn at least part of who your audience really is, you also learned who they are NOT.

And that's valuable too.

Keep it up!

Most importantly, no matter what, BE YOURSELF! To do anything else is fake. If it isn't "you," don't do it! Even judges of talent shows don't really like fakes, and they can smell fake.

Last edited by MrXxx on 17 Jul 2011, 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

While that's fine, watch closely for what he's doing on stage. He may stand there in front of the mic, but he's still doing quite a lot. He's keeping time with one foot while he plays, shifting his stance every now and then in time with the music, stepping back from the mic during instrumental sections, looking around at the entire audience when convenient, and occasionally checking his guitar-playing.

True. But consider this:

James Mcmurtry has been performing since the late Seventies. That's thirty years. And even after that long time, he's still pretty stoic. Imagine what he was probably like the first year or so on stage.



Yes, if you only look at him, but if you compare him to the vast majority of pop acts out there, he's a statue. He looks up once in a while, but is he really looking anyone in the eye? Impossible to tell from the video. I didn't see that James was much more animated that Cornelius at all.

In BOTH cases though, I found the performances and expression appropriate for the music.

As Cornelius said, he was singing about death. What's he supposed to do while singing about death? Dance a jig?

Come to think of it, that is done sometimes in certain cultures, but the style of music and purpose behind it is totally different.

C'est magnifique! (sorry if that's wrong... I only self studied French...)

Your voice is amazing. I could tell that you were feeling the emotion in the song. I think it was pretty obvious you were nervous but as you say in the circumstances I am not surprised! I hold pretty much the same posture when I sing so maybe that's an AS thing...

I write songs because I have to. It makes me feel good to do it. I don't do it for promises of money, or fame. I just need to do it. Even if you told me that from now on no one will ever listen to anything I ever do, I would still write and record and play (to myself I suppose in that situation). So we're both doing it for the right reasons, in my book anyway.
And I'm sure you're being too hard on yourself! I'm extremely critical as well, and never feel like I've attained my goal. I always feel like I can do better. Which is good because it forces me to work my ass off to do better.



I'd be curious to know what your write about in your lyrics and what style of music you compose. If you're not comfortable sharing mp3s, a description could satisfy a bit of my curiosity.

Yeah! I like that moniker!
20 years, wow, you look pretty young for that.



True, I sort of come from the French school of death expression. Very existential, very serious. *frowny face*

When I sing about death and loss people do relate yes, but when I sing about weirder things, about wanting to burn the world, about rage and anger, about suicide and hopelessness, people have a harder time with it.
My themes have been compared to Edgar Allan Poe and H.P. Lovecraft and Charles Baudelaire. Not your usual feel good stuff.
I'm not saying I'm half the writer they are! But I do talk about the same sort of stuff.



I do recommend to try it, any and all songwriters should play to a live audience at least once. You get a lot of information from it. And you learn to appreciate your music more.



That is very true. More people told me they really loved my music from those shows than there were judges on the panel!
I just tend to have a hard time accepting the good feedback and concentrate on the negative.
I'm not sure if it's the best way to say it, but I'm sure you guys understand what I mean.
Someone once told me that I will have to build my audience 1 member at a time, because of the fringe aspect of it.
What seemed a very depressing thought at the time now seems less so, it feels right, a logical conclusion.



I have about 6 shows with large audiences (around 100 5 of those times, and 1000 once -- first video), so yeah, I have very little experience. And I'm still figuring out how to fully relax and belt out on stage. But I get better everytime.
And when I play by myself, to my cat, to my furniture, I do move and tap my foot and look around. But in very strange ways at times. I held back in those performances for the talent shows because I wanted to win, so I listened to the artistic director (they look at your soundcheck on tape and tell you what you should and shouldn't do.)
I think Zokk has a point though, even if James is pretty stoic, he does a lot of subtle things during his performance. None of those things seem to be out of nervousness. He looks and feels at ease.
My goal is to achieve that flow state, I know I can. I've done it in front of small crowds (5-25 people).
Oh, and I never ever before that performance on the tape sang without playing piano or guitar. So that probably does not help. I didn't know what to do with my left hand! And when you play guitar you have to stand pretty much close to the mic the whole time.



That's exactly right. No misspelling, no wrong verb tense (those are a b***h in french, even for a native speaker!)
Thank you!!
It really means a lot that you like it and you like my voice (I have a big complex about it).
For the first 5 years I wrote songs I had other singers sing them because I thought I could not.
Yeah, my posture is still similar even when I'm not nervous. We're not known for our physical grace. Although I might be wrong, I doubt there are many apsie/autie dancers...
Do you sing alot in front of people?


All in all, thanks again!! For the critical eye, for the encouragement, I'm feeling something I haven't felt in a long time. Might be hope.

I can see it work. I can see how just letting loose and being myself might just work... to be continued.

I used to sing karaoke at a pub but I just sing alone now. I film myself sometimes though and that's how I know that I am holding a 'stiff' posture.

What's wrong with these performances? Nothing I could see. I like the look of both these vvideos, the filming and editing was well done.

Wow, I was surprised at the 1st video. I was reminded of Jeff Buckley; Ihaven't heard any of his music for years. A haunting.

As for gesture; in the 1st video, C'est l'ambulance, there is a strong moment at @ 2:20-2:30 where you walk backward to retreive the mike stand. Arms, legs and cleansing breath; strong masculine natural.

I'm at a disadvantage because my faltering French is unused for decades; it's buried and I only hear single words and phrase fragments.

Sans nom 2; this brought Rufus Wainright to mind. Not your voices, but the dynamics and something about the arc of the song. Beautiful ahwell I'm a sucker for panio and slide guitar. Your voice sounds so good in this song; facile.