Irony

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Of my many journeys learning about Asperger's, one thing I found was that we can't understand concepts such as irony and sarcasm. I've got the sarcasm down--to the point where I am acutely aware of it, at least from myself. Irony, though, has always been a mystery to me. It's been explained to me in different ways. My lover says that none of the things in the Alanis Morissette song are actually irony. It has also been described to me as "dark humor" and "the opposite of what you expected to happen." I don't have a solid grasp on dark humor. And expectations... well, if I don't normally expect anything to happen, then how do I define its opposite? That definition is very confusing to me. So can anyone explain irony in a way that I will understand?

Irony and sarcasm are very similar.
Sarcasm is when you say one thing, but mean the opposite. It is usually intended in a teasing or mean-spirited way.
Irony can also be saying one thing and meaning another. However, situations can also be ironic. For example, a gun safety expert accidently shooting himself.

I frequently use sarcasm when I speak. Ironically, I usually fail to notice when others are being sarcastic.

I understand those concepts....apparently according to dictionary definition Irony would be like using a word as the opposite as it would normally mean. Like if you sarcastically say 'that's nice' about something that is not nice at all I think that would fall in the catagory. Or doing something to imply the opposite sort of thing maybe like wearing something ridiculous because you hate it. Not sure it is necessarily supposed to make sense.

Or like the example of the gun-safety expert accidentally shooting them self while demonstrating gun safety could be a good example. You say you have a grasp on sarcasm so won't try to explain that one. I find satare and sarcasm to be funny much of the time though it can be malicious.

So from the Alanis Morissette song, for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about:

"He won the lottery and died the next day" not irony?
"Black fly in a blue chardonnay" not irony?
"Death row pardon two minutes two late" irony?
"Traffic jam when you're already late" not irony?
"A no smoking sign on your cigarette break" irony?
"Ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife" not irony?
"Meeting the man of my dreams, and then meeting his beautiful wife" not irony?
"Rain on your wedding day" not irony?
"A free ride when you've already paid" irony?
"Good advice that you just can't take" not irony?

I won't even get into the plane crash scenario from the song, I don't understand what the point of that is at all.

I think the plane crash is the only true example of irony. The man never flew because he was afraid his plane would crash. When he finally got over his fear and took a flight, the plane indeed crashed. It's an ironic way for him to die because it's the opposite of what one might expect to happen (although perhaps not ironic to the man who feared it would happen).

A traffic jam when you're already late could also be ironic, if you are not usually late and don't usually encounter traffic jams.
If you are usually late, then it is expected that eventually you'll be in a traffic jam while late. (not irony)
If you frequently encounter traffic jams, then getting stuck in one while you're late is also not unexpected. (not irony)

I'm sorry, I still don't really get it. I don't think anyone gets on a plane expecting it to crash (except terrorists), so does that mean that every time a plane crashes, it's irony?

It's ironic because the man was right all along, even though his fear seemed irrational.
Getting over that fear seemed like the right thing to do, but instead it killed him.

But it isn't ironic every time something unexpected happens.
A ship sinking isn't ironic.
The Titanic sinking, however, was ironic.

In the song the situations can be explained as unlucky coincidences. For the plane scenario, the man was deathly afraid of flying; the one single time he set his fear aside enough to get on a flight, it did indeed crash. So the irony is that his slightly paranoid fear was justified in the end, I suppose.

I don't think a fear of flying is a very uncommon thing though.

Hmmm..

I get annoyed with Alanis because those various bummers listed in her song dont really strike me as being "ironic". But it is hard to define what "ironic" is. Like porn- you cant define it- but you know it when you see it.

Being offered a selection of 10 thousand spoons when all you need is a knife is not ironic. But being in search of knife- and having you quest for a knife end with your car getting a flat tire because you ran over a disguarded knife on the road- would be ironic.

The govenor sending you a pardon thirty seconds too late to stop them from turning on the electric chair and toasting you (something like that is in her song) would not really be "irony".Its not counter to expectation. Either outcome- he pardons you in time- or he doesnt- would be present in your mind as possibilities.

What would be irony would be the King declaring that "all pickpockets are to be hanged in public". And the result was large crowds gathering to see the public hangings- and becoming victims of pickpockets. That actually happened in Elizabethan Times. That was indeed "irony".

Getting stuck in traffic when you're already late- is not ironic. Mainly because-its not really "counter to expectation". When you're behind the wheel, and running late to work- its always in your head that something could happen to make you even more late.

What would make "getting stuck in traffic" "ironic" might be- you're on vacation and wanna "get away from all the crowds"- and on your way to your rustic getaway in the mountains you get stuck in the traffic jam with all of the other folks trying to escape to your same secluded destination!

Irony is the use of language to convey some meaning other than the literal meaning of the language used.

Sarcasm is a form of intentional verbal aggression which often-but-not-always employs irony. You can be accidentally ironic, but you can't be accidentally sarcastic.

As far as Alanis Morisette is concerned, releasing a hit single of nearly four minutes' length pertaining to the concept of irony, which contains not a single valid example of irony, might itself be considered ironic.