Sort of Frightening

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Thanks for the humor, GoatOnFire!" It is certainly needed, at this point.


Exactly. Notice that I acknowledged the need of guys to vent, and that I understood it. I am not interested in invalidating anyone's feelings here.

And how do you know that these guys aren't doing something about it? After all, this isn't a competition about seeing who can do the less "whining." I would appreciate if you would quit invalidating their feelings. Your comments are approaching flaming. Please stop contributing to the thread, if you don't have anything constructive to share.

Maybe this bitter attitude that many male geeks have in these forums is also a survival trait, according to the laws of Darwinian psychology.

This especially must be true if it is so common. As it would brake the law of nature for a large number of aspies to inherit attitude that is counter productive to their survival that doesn’t contribute to their gifts of being an aspie nor survival in an NT world.

Many geek in this forum appear to inherit much behaviour of NTs unlike myself who just make logical observation. So that must be a survival trait, no.

Well, i havent posted anything in this forum area, 15 yrs and i really dont want a girl freind or date, but i do agree with you, venting is nice, but it has a point, where your not venting any more your just B****ing and whinning, like i said before i havent posted in that area, but i apoligize to you.

No need to apologize! I have learned a lot from reading these posts.

How so? I'm not understanding what you mean.

Because they don't act or speak in the way an asperger or autistic would. I realise this isn't a conclusive indicator, but still.



Maybe I badly phrased my point. It's not that I think hugs are suggestive: there are different types of hugs after all and some people are just more affectionate than others, but I sometimes worry how others will see the action in context. For instance, if I hug someone of the opposite sex and someone else walks in the room while I'm doing it, are they going to think its sexual or just friendly? Of course body language and any evidence of upset/anger plays into it but the interpretation could swing either way regardless of the truth. Personally I don't hug very much anyway. I didn't intend to upset you, you sound like an affectionate person and that's fine.



I didn't mean stalking, I meant non-reciprocated love/crushes. I meant the situation where someone confesses that they like you and you have to turn them down, even though you would really like a relationship. Stalking was not in my mind when I wrote that.



Because men in general find women hard to understand?



I thought aspies try to rationalise other people's behaviour. If you struggle to socialise with people in general, is it so unreasonable to struggle with talking to the opposite sex as well? As a child people would reject my attempts to socialise without any obvious or stated reason whatsoever, or at least without one that was logical and rational.

There must be an servival advantage of being bitter this way if it is so common amoungst aspies males. If bitterness was a weakness then by laws of Natural-Selection they would not get a chance to pass on their genes leaving the advantage to more happier aspies. As a result happiness would then be one of the condition of aspergers sydrome as well as lack of eye contact, sensativity to loud sounds, logical mind etc.

Of course. It keeps us out of the party atmosphere... and out of all the vices that consume such an environment...


That picture is... unsettling...

From what I have read, it has only been suggested, nothing like proof has been brought forward. I think this conclusion is unwarranted, it is assuming that because Aspie females tend to act more like NT males socially, it has to be testosterone. I think a better assumption is that they have the same defect in the part(s) of the brain that deal with emotion and social stuff as male Aspies, but the enhanced female abilities in these areas compensate somewhat. Making them closer to a NT male than a NT female and not being so characteristically Aspie as males. Going by the posts here, I see little sign that Aspie females are more aggressive than NT females or have a higher sex drive in general which is what you'd expect with higher than normal testosterone levels. Not that there aren't individuals who might have one or both of these traits. But it doesn't seem to be a general trend, only individual variation.

Not sure about that. Many aspies including myself appear to be very happy one the outside while not particularly happy on the inside. You can be sure that from an evolutionary point of view, our emotions are there to help us survive the same is true for animals. It is not some kind of device that need to be fed in order to work, like a car that need gasoline.

Aspie_Chav - As usual, I agree with your Darwinian logic. It may sound very harsh and un-PC (Then again, I'm always accused of being the PC police - so it works out) - but I think the far end of the "geek spectrum" is the line of demarkation.

The guys who are having girl problems are usually hardcore geeks. I imagine that geeks are not exclusively aspie. And aspies are not exclusively hardcore geeks.

There are a lot of geeky aspies who are perfectly charming and are like ideal boyfriend or husband material. But they are not necessarily hardcore geeks. My husband is an example.

Its the same with girls - I am a proud geek - but just a low-intensity geek. I am perfectly at ease with the party environment and all its vices - but then its usually a mix of geeks, quasi-geeks and the occasional stupid jock or dumb bimbo eye candy.

I am sure hardcore geeky girls agonize over guys - and some get pretty psycho.

Survival techniques VERY often manifest themselves in bitterness. It's an effective means of deflection.

People who are dumb are often bullies because they can't cope intellectually in this cruel world. So, it stand that geeks will become angry and take out their anger in more passive non-violent ways. Then again - gun freaks, pyros, and serial rapists are very often social outcasts.

Not true, lots of really bad genes can flourish despite being self defeating in a verity of ways, for example bitterness could survive because it tends to be found next to the genes that get geeks those high paying high status engineering / computing jobs. Besides natural selection isn't what it used to be now we have medicine and sentience.

Not all geeks are bitter. And they must overcome their resentment and bitterness from their screwed up adolescence to make the big bucks.

Natural selection is even more relevant then it used to be. Women are getting more picky because of the environment that we all live, woman can now have many children as she is physically capable of and they will almost always survive to adulthood, without the support of a man. Men, starting with the beta man, are becoming surplus to requirements as we are now moving to a polygamous society.

. This has a bigger impact on aspies then it does NTs. Many NTs can afford to carry a few bad genes and unproductive behaviour. If bitterness was such a weakness, it would die out in aspies much more quicker then NTs.

Maybe the part of the brain for bitterness is near the part to do with engineering etc. But that is a mere biological technical problem, if an environment existed where bitterness was self-destructive, but engineering excellence was a good thing, nature would kill of the bitterness gene regardless of how close it is to the engineering gene.

We aspies or NTs are not a by product of faulty biological engineering. We are built this way for a reason.

There are issues from both sides, from the women and the men.

Generally speaking, many guys – sex is of higher importance in a relationship, with a woman, - the emotional bonding is more important.

When a guy is getting sex out of a relationship and does not give back the emotional depth ness that a woman longs for, it is more of one sided, and if the roles were reversed… it would also go the other way…

A woman has a natural inclination to be protected by her man, to be cherished and accepted, to be understood and openness, to be loved and to love… When a guy sees that sex is his most important goal in a relationship with a woman, it is headed for rough waters.

Guys, take care of her needs and she will naturally return the favor… just do not put yourself first and be self centered… It is about taking risks and chances. Being open and honest... it may be the harder way of doing things for a guy but it is the shortest path to growth, as an individual and in the relationship. It is better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you are not! Guys have a tendency to be possessive with certain things… seems that (including myself) it is usually deeper emotional things and their woman that can trigger an obsessive possessiveness. I have experienced this when I was younger, but time and age as well as being in a relationship for a longtime (~17 years) have mellowed me out and able to resist and control these unhealthy compulsive obsessive behaviors.

Some women expect their men to be able to read their minds…. My wife has done it to me, then pisses her off sometimes when I just did not catch it or something… I dig the relationship but I am not into the finer points of drama or the body language that is more detailed between women… They do some sort of thing that is supposed to tip off their guy and expect him to act on cue… Unless this guy puts you on a pedestal and is extremely obsessive about and over you… chances are, it will go over his head… have to say things more so to a guy than what you’re used to… we just do not get these social or physical cues… especially me and others on the spectrum…

I can keep going on about all sorts of things but to sum it up, there is a misunderstanding between guys and gals, general things and then individual factors that are unique for each person…

Maturity plays a role in the ability to successfully manage a relationship… If someone is still self centered and in a relationship, it is going to be disastrous and emotions will be hurt… And everyone does and will be hurt at one time or another... and the ability to vent it out rather than holding it in is healthy, although it can step on other peoples toes at times… I have done such things myself also… I am my own biggest critic.

You know, hartzofspace, I really understand where you are coming from. If I was a gal and I was hearing all these guys on this forum saying ugly things about women and generalizing them in one category, as being superficial and therefore not worth the effort, I would be concerned and frightened as well. Lol, how ironic, I am one of many romantic malcontents on here and I'm agreeing with you on a logical level, despite personal negative experiences.

You said you understand the loneliness aspect that we feel. Well I think I have a explanation as to why we guys get so angry and pissed off and start judging women left and right. I think it all has to do with pride, we males are proud creatures, and in our pride, we hate being rejected and ignored, especially when we're putting ourselves, which leaves us vulnerable.

It is tough enough trying to let a girl know that you like her, let alone asking her out. You're talking about "nice guys" on this forum, we already don't have that much self esteem and confidence in ourselves, and we're putting ourselves out there romantically because it is better to try than to be alone and full of lust and desire. When a girl rejects us, it's not simply just an action, it is like a person insult to us. It has a deeper sting. It is like saying "You're not even worthy of being involved with me or anyone like me romantically!". Yes, I know that is taking it terribly personally, but that's how I believe we interpret it. We put ourselves on the line and we hope to do well, and then we are rejected, often repeatedly, and we loss that sense of objectivity we had before. Disappointment turns into anger and resentment. We feel that we should have what we presume everyone else of having, romantic love, relationships, and whatever else.

Now, as for you ladies, as I recall, culturally, you don't ask out males. Therefore you are simply waiting for a guy to ask you out. Now, I can logically assume it isn't that simple, you have to worry about what the guy thinks about you and how you're coming off to the guy, that is if you are interested in him. You even might have to hint at you liking the guy as well. However, the opening move is made by the guy, he is the one really putting himself out on the line. The girl makes the decision. Now, there are always exceptions to this, girls MIGHT in a rare occasion ask out a guy, but it usually is when the guy likes the girl and the girl likes the guy and the guy is too shy to make the big move.

Now there is the matter of dating guys who end up being jerks and manipulating girls, and girls having their feelings hurt during and after the relationship. Yes, girls do become upset, but they always send to give guys a chance anyways. After all, is it really worth being alone all the time? I don't think so. And besides, guys tend to be pleasant and "nice" during the beginning of the relationship. Girls aren't really putting themselves on the line, yes, they might be putting their emotions on the line, however, they are merely accepting an invitation.

So from my perspective, the male has a lot more to loss than the female. Thus, it is easier to become more angry and furious at rejection, especially when you had your hopes up and trusted in the person you wanted to be romantically involved with. However, I will say this, ALL parties, except for one possibly, are superficial. Nice guys are superficial hypocrites because they usually only go after the most attractive females physically, they almost always ignore average to below average looking girls, who tend to be nicer. Attractive girls are superficial hypocrites because they say they want nice guys and gentleman, but they ignore guys who are nice and kind and go after guys who tend to be jerkish and mischievous. There are only parties that seem to not be hypocritical. The only parties I believe are not superficial hypocrites are girls who are average to unattractive looking girls and overly confident and jerkish guys, both go after the types they are interested in, average to unattractive looking usually go after nice, friendly guys, and overly confident guys and jerks go after attractive women.