Was I in LJBF zone with this girl?

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In Summer 2007 I was talking to a girl named Shawna on the plentyoffish.com We never met in person. Anyway, at the beginnig when we started talking she found me "sweet" because I was very supportive of the situation with her mother's death. I also portrayed myself as very insecure due to my Asperger. Anyway, when I asked her whether she want to have a relationship with me, she said that she wanted to meet in person first, before she could see if we fit (the reason we didn't meet for the whole summer is that I was having a summer break in California while she is in Michigan, which is the state I go to school at, so we dind't have chane to meet until september when I moved back to Michigan since the school started).

Anyway, one thing I noticed is that, apart from the fact that we have to meet first, she said she wanted to "take it slowly". When I tried to ask her how slow, her response was along the lines that she doesn't want to lose me as a friend. Now I know the line "I don't want to lose you as a friend" is a typical LJBF thing. Also, ever since she said that, she became overly sensitive to the fact that she hurt me. She would appologise for not having been able to talk to me as often as I would like, and she was suggesting that whenever I log online and can't catch her, I should email her. So I interpretted it as her trying to be nice to me because she knew she rejected me, and was afraid it hurt me.

Anyway, the reason I question whether it was LJBF or not is this: when I found Jennifer (the girl who then became my girlfriend for the two years) I took profile off. At first Shawna asked me if "I was okay" in the context of my taking it off. I told her that I took it off because of Jennifer. However, I said that I was not yet dating Jennifer, and in fact my chances with Jennifer are not great because it seems that she was still hurt by her ex so she was cautious. Nevertheless, I was "giving her the best shot" because Jennifer was a graduate student at my school, which is otherwise hard to find. Anyway, Shawna's response to this was that it is not good to be friends with someone you are interested in, if they are trying something with someone else. So she basically told me to only contact her if it turns out that things between me and Jennifer don't work out.

Well, so I guess the question is this: if she LJBF-ed me like I thought she did, why would she care if I pursue someone else? Do you think she was interested in me all alone and the perceived LJBF was misunderstanding on my part? Or do you think she actually meant to LJBF me because she thought that my "value" was low, but then when she saw that I could get a chance with some girl (even though that other girl was not YET that into me) it means that my prize is higher than she thought, so she no longer viewed me as LJBF? What do you think?

Don't know. It seems to me if she just wanted to be friends, she wouldn't have wanted to meet. Its not really unusual for people to hold off on relationships till they meet someone.

If by "wanting to be just friends" you actually mean FRIENDS as opposed to a brush off, then of course they would want to meet. I mean, being "best friends" with a guy you are not interested in is a well known, widely discussed, phenomenon.

Let's break this down into a timeline:

1)You start an online correspondence (notice I don't call it relationship) with Shawna. You click, at least in writing, and continue writing to each other.

2)You want to start a relationship. She wants to meet first to see if you click i person as you did in writing. This is normal. I think it would be insane to call yourself "in a relationship" with somebody you have never met and with whom you have only written emails to. Am I in a relationship with you now? No. Of course not. The act of writing text which another person reads does not constiute a relationship. But perhaps if there was chemistry between you when you met, a relationship could start. There is a reason why people use the term "chemistry" in relationships. Because relationships are more than the words people exchange. They are also the way two peoples' physical beings mesh with each other.

3)She said she wanted to "take things slowly". She would not call your email correspondence a "relationship" unless she met you, decided she liked you in person (had chemistry) and got to know you better. It would be madness for her to do it any other way. Committing yourself to a relationship with somebody you have not met would be foolish. Keeping the possibility of a relationship open is wise, that possibility pending getting to know each other better. You can't get to know somebody purely online. I know nobody here and nobody knows me depsite my many posts since May. You have to meet in person. By "take things slowly" she meant "in person" meeting and she also meant that she would not decide on the basis of one meeting. Which is wise. Before email existed, people did not get into relationships on the basis of one date.

4)She hoped that if you did not click in person after meeting, you could still continue to correspond. That's the "not lose you as a friend" part. She hadn't made up her mind if you were relationship material or not. How could she. You hadn't met even once. But she hoped that if you met and did not click you would not xcease writing to her.

5)You started an iffy relationship with another girl. A relationship that might or might not work out but you framed it as a relationship anyway.

6)Shawna had been considering you as relationship material, pending getting to know you in person, but you took yourself off the market by stating you were considering a relationship with somebody else.

7)She said to contact her if things with Jennifer didn't work out.

In other words, you rejected her by taking up with somebody else when she wasn't willing to commit to you sight unseen. But she wasn't willing to give up on you just yet and was willing to be your "second choice", should things not work out with Jennifer. She didn't play the LJBF card at all. You got impatient and moved on to somebody else.


The bottom line seems to be that some people consider an online correspondence to be the equivalent of a relationship and some people consider it to be the opening words that might lead to a relationship in the future, pending getting to know each other in person. When two such people meet, there is guarenteed to be a misunderstanding.

You missed the word "because". You presented part 4 as independent of 1-3. But she said that 1-3 were because of 4. Now I read online that one of the versions of LJBF is "I don't want to start a relatinoship because I don't want to lose you as a friend". Now, true, in some (but not all) of these other cases they would actually say LJBF before the "becaues", so in case of Shauna it wasn't as clear which is why I am asking.



I didn't reject her. Even if she considered me a relationship material, like you said she didn't know one way or the other since she didn't meet me yet. So when ppl don't know whether they will be a couple in future or not, they also consider others. It is normal on a dating site to talk to several ppl at the same time and consider each of them as a relationship material, as long as one doesn't actually commit to more than one person, and I didn't.

So this is what makes me think that perhaps once she saw I was capable of attracting someone her attitude towards me changed and I became MORE of a relatinship material than I used to, which would explain the inconsistency.

I mean, you even said yourself that back when she said she didn't want to lose me, she was telling me that she didn't want the correspondence to cease if after we meet things don't go well. Now, relationship-wise things not going well on a first date and my finding Jennifer is the same thing: both stop the relationship between me and Shawna. So how come the former wouldn't have stopped her being my friend while the latter did? Well, my interpretation is because my social status in the former case is lower than in the latter one. So when my social status was low she wasn't interested in me relationship-wise, but she still wanted to befriend me out of pity (which is why she kept apologising for not being able to talk often enough, was trying to encourage me to email her, etc). But once she saw I was with Jennifer, she no longer pitied me, but instead she started to actually WANT me which is why she was no longer willing to talk "as friends" if we weren't going to date.

But anyway, that is juts my interpretation, it doesn't seem that clear. Thats why I am asking what do others think.

Roman, it's well know that if "money goes the rich" (and not the poor), it's often the same for love and relationships.

It's unjust and more or less ir/rational but that's how it often works.

... And love hasn't much to do with rationality.

What does that expression mean? I never heard it before.

Did you mean "money goes TO the rich" and you missed the word "to"? That would make more sense.

Yes, I missed it, sorry. That's what I meant to write.

It didn't look like Shawna did the LJBF thing with you.

It's true that you can talk to several people if you don't know that you'll be a couple, but rather it looked instead that you assumed that you couldn't be a couple with Shawna, instead of simply don't know. What I interpreted Shawna to want was "let's meet in person, and go from there". I also think that you gave up on Shawna too easily, since you interpreted "I don't want to lose you as a friend" as "let's just be friends". The two don't necessarily have the same meaning. Most people aren't friends with their ex'es, so it is quite possible that Shawna wanted to take things slow to reduce the chance of a problem and ensuing breakup.

That's unfortunate! It looked like Shawna was quite interested in you.

This is kind of strange. If she were really jealous, she would be chatting to you more; not telling you to stop until you stopped seeing the other girl. Shawna is probably trying to push you TOWARD the other girl since she doesn't intend on having a relationship with you. She's doing you a favor. However, she is leaving the option open to continue persuing her meaning that she does enjoy talking to you; but just would rather not break something up that might actually work.

She did definately LJBF you btw. If things with Jennifer don't work out, you'll be right back to square one chasing Shawna again with no chance of catching her. You were right to move on like you did, & hope you continue to.

I don't know why you guys assume that I gave up on Shawna. Like I said, one can chat with more than one person at the same time, until there is a comitment. So even if I were to interpret Shawna's behavior as the one of someone interested, I would be doing exact same thing talking to Jennifer. I mean that is pure logic, even if I have 75% chance with a girl, since 75% is not 100% it only makes sense to talk to others as well in order to increase chances of getting at least one. And it is not cheating either since there was no commitment YET so I assumed the girls assume I talk to others anyway, just like I assume they do.

Now, it happened to be true that I perceived Shawna's behavior as LJBF. But that perception didn't change my actions. So she couldn't see it since she is not psychic.

And by the way as far as Jennifer goes, I wanted her regardless of how many other girls I have and how much luck. Thats because Jennifer was graduate student so she was worth much more than other girls. Even if i was in a serious relationship with Shawna for a year I probably would have broken up with her in order to date Jennifer. Although I admit I would have chose a "safe" root by first actually getting some kind of guarantee that Jennifer is mine behind Shawna's back and then breaking up with Shawna after the fact.

If such is the case, how come she said "it is not good to date someone you are interested in if they are seeing someone else"? Are you saying she lied to me that she was interested in me?



Why would she break things up between me and Jennifer if she kept talking to me? I mean if she were to tell me clearly taht she only talks to me as a friend then this won't break anything up.

You would actually be that horrible to somebody? Wow!

That comment was about you. Not her.



Few NTs are blunt enough to say stuff like that. They'll usually just tell you things to get you to act the way they want, yet try to save face & not burn bridges. Shawna knows you're interested in her, and as long as she's in the picture in any way, you'll be torn. She's gracefully removing herself so you can give undivided attention to Jennifer.

Looks like Shawna had a lucky escape...