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The UCSB shooter--an Aspie with a rant against women

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tarantella64
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25 May 2014, 11:49 am

SoftwareEngineer wrote:
Well, things in posts seem to be disappearing and things I've quoted from those posts are disappearing too. I'm not being critical of the moderators, I think they do a good job and I appreciate their work. However, if anyone wonders what I was referring to in some of my posts, it's gone. And, that disappearance is a sign of good moderation.


No, the disappearance is a sign of the poster's intellectual honesty. Would that it had to do with moderation of sexism. I don't have enough background to assert those things, so I deleted them. Impressions aren't enough. However, I did point you to an entire field of study that deals with that very problem -- men treating men badly, and its effects on men -- which, as far as I can tell, you've ignored by trying to bounce the conversation back to your dislike of feminism.

Which isn't exactly honest of you. Have you had a look at the #yesallwomen hashtag?

Enjoy your posting spree, boys -- am off to clean up from a run and go to brunch with a nice lady friend.



tarantella64
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25 May 2014, 11:50 am

SoftwareEngineer wrote:
Rodney00 wrote:
SoftwareEngineer wrote:
Well, things in posts seem to be disappearing and things I've quoted from those posts are disappearing too. I'm not being critical of the moderators, I think they do a good job and I appreciate their work. However, if anyone wonders what I was referring to in some of my posts, it's gone. And, that disappearance is a sign of good moderation.
well yea no one needs the 22 year old wannabe newscasters looking on this site for anything. NSAs probably already on it.


It's actually quite cool. Comments by one of the people who has demanded more moderation of sexism got deleted and the quotations of those in my posts got edited. It's cool because the moderators are clearly looking at the content in a gender neutral way.


Sorry to disappoint; see above. The mods are not responsible for that one.



BornThisWay
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25 May 2014, 11:51 am

I stand corrected on the banning issue. I did not realize he had been consistently posting that sort of stuff and not being engageable in a conversation about his attitudes. And I also see the need for WP and the rest of the AS community to do whatever we can to distance ourselves from the behaviors that come out of these attitudes. Perhaps he'll learn something in the meantime...all I can do is pray he 'grows out of it'...



tarantella64
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25 May 2014, 11:52 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
tarantella64 wrote:
Rodney00 wrote:
tarantella64 wrote:
Rodney00 wrote:
For what its worth, look at pop culture today. The beer commercials associate good times with pretty women. The TV shows, teen movies, show the happy guys with hot girls, and the guys without them miserable.


Rodney, who do you think makes beer commercials?
People attuned to what is "popular" culture, people who use demographic statistics, trends, and pay companies like Nielsen, etc. very handsomely. Not to mention who are risking billions a year to sell their stuff, and it works. Works for a reason.


That's not what I asked. I asked who makes the commercials. Men or women, in general? Who's writing these scripts, choosing the models, shooting the commercials? If you've got men recycling a damaging narrative -- you suck if you don't have a pretty gal on your arm -- at men, then what do you expect?

I cannot think of a single woman I know doing creative work who'd come up with a beer commercial like that.


What you want is stability and someone to consider your thoughts, emotions and feelings am I correct?

So am I right when I say the culture is screwed up? How do I be virtuous in a non-virtuous culture?

Why aren't there more women scriptwriters to bring balance to the equation?


There's tremendous sexism in business. Ask women in any male-dominated field. The men don't generally dig it when the numbers start looking equal, and it takes forever for the pay to equilibrate. Shoot, you can ask Jill Abramson about that.



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25 May 2014, 12:01 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
So am I right when I say the culture is screwed up?


It is. Yet, I suspect that people have been saying this same thing (about our culture being screwed up) since the beginning. It just seems more messed up due to the instantaneous, free-flow of information.



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25 May 2014, 12:03 pm

Hopper wrote:
marshall wrote:
Hopper wrote:
And it wasn't that he wanted something he couldn't get. It was that (in his mind) he was entitled to something he didn't have. It's felt not so much as an unfulfilled desire, but a loss of something you could swear you once had; something wasn't kept from you so much as taken from you.


Someone like that will come up with any rationalization. The rationalization is the most offensive part to you, but I don't think feeling entitled alone causes someone to murder. He had a bruised ego and was painting himself the victim. His ego was the biggest problem, not his feeling entitled to sex.


I think there are many contributing factors here, as there are in many crimes. I don't think I've said entitlement alone caused him to murder. What I do see is that i) this entitlement turns up in a lot of places, including here, ii) if he did not have such a sense of entitlement, he may have been a more psychologically healthy individual and iii) there's a lot of umming and aahing over the possible causes, considering everything except misogynist entitlement - inded, actually dismissing it - in a pretty crude display of denial.


Disproportionate sexual objectification of women is an issue in our society. I'm not some MRA douchebag who wants to turn the clock back to the 19th century. I just don't think this guy went on a murder rampage because he felt women were inferior and should be his sex slaves. He murdered because he was full of self-loathing and anger and used misogyny to rationalize it. Why was he full of self-loathing? Probably because he grew up spoiled rich in an environment where he associated with mostly other spoiled rich idiots, a narcissistic image obsessed culture. He lived in a bubble.



The_Face_of_Boo
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25 May 2014, 12:22 pm

I don't think if that guy had sex at 18 then that means he would have turned to a sanely safe guy, it would only delay his act of violence, the thing is, everyone gets hurt by someone of the opposite sex at one point (or points) in life. Him having an active sexual life while young doesn't mean that he wouldn't murder or commit some other crime (like beating or killing wife) later on once he gets lonely again or rejected or not getting enough sex or got cheated or whatever. His criminal mind was the result of something deeper than a matter of rejections or lack of sex or love.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 25 May 2014, 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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25 May 2014, 12:23 pm

Poor upbringing + access to guns = expect more of this.

Give it a fortnight.


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25 May 2014, 12:24 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
@SoftwareEngineer: You're adding the venom yourself; it's not there when I post. But I do think you have significant problems with hearing anything that suggests men are making things very difficult for other men.

Ask around here: ask men where they get the idea that men who don't get laid are inferior. I bet many will say that they feel women are judging them on their sexual experience -- but have they actually asked? I can tell you, after a lifetime of hanging with women, that this is not something we're usually thinking about when we meet a man (just like we're not obsessed with men's height the way that so many men seem to be). So where does the idea come from? Movies? Well, who writes the movies and directs them? Men, usually. It's a male narrative.

We're really not sitting there sizing you up and sorting you by "will know how to pleasure me to screaming orgasm" v. "can't get laid". For one thing...and, y'know, this is something else I doubt you'll want to hear...most men just aren't that earthshattering in the sack, in my long and happy experience and my friends' experiences, and it's not something we expect or even go that far out of our way for. There's more to life than that, and more to the sack than that. Yeah, there are women who spend some span of years as sexual adventuresses and it's all about the nerve endings for them, for that time, but for most of us? Mm, no.

The idea that this is what women are after, and how women choose and value men, is a PUA fantasy. Not a very nice one, either.
I think thats why it causes men to get those ideas and adds to insecurity and in the closet feeling useless but in denial. The media doesnt help either on this view and get the false idea that women like big buff men who are rich and such and penis size matters and height matters or how strong someone is matters or if we can instantly be a handyman knowing how to fix a car or a leaking faucet. When most men don't fit all the criteria they feel insecure. Deep down we feel like we are nothing but dont want to admit it so put up a facade to make up for it because we are drilled in our minds thats what women are after and if we don't fit a few of whats listed in the stereotypical criteria were not worthy. I don't speak for all men on this one but I am a man and I do admit it makes me feel insecure and inadequite and I have to have the feel to be adequite if I am to be worthy of being with a woman.


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TheGoggles
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25 May 2014, 12:27 pm

Is this an IMAX theater? Because I'm seeing a ton of projection.



The_Face_of_Boo
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25 May 2014, 12:29 pm

Goerges Sodini lost his virginity when he was young yet he killed women anyway at his 40s after getting lonely. And I don't think organized prostitution would solve anything of this, it's not really a matter of lack of sex/affection/love.



BornThisWay
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25 May 2014, 12:32 pm

I find it really strange on WP for people to question Rodger's age and the level and placement of schooling he had. I thought he was actually a UCSB student at first, and with an AS dx found it remarkable for him to be placed in such a pressured environment as a 4 year school. I don't really find it all that strange for someone on the spectrum to be in a CC at the age of 22. Smaller schools are often the best places for Aspies to really get going well in learning how to socially function independently as adults. We're not supposed to mature at the rate of NT students - it's totally normal for one to be a virgin at the age of 22 if you're an aspie. How did he get the idea he was supposed to live up (or down) to NT patterns of sexual activities? Was it simply the flood of messages from our media/culture?

My question is where did he get his values in life? Knowing right from wrong is not a foundational issue in autism...in certain psychoses and personality disorders it is, but knowing right form wrong is not a DSM V diagnostic issue for ASD - so it's not his being on the spectrum that should even be a subject in this discussion.

Who taught him, showed him or let him grow up thinking that he should be getting laid by blond UCSB sorority girls - and worse, that the solution was to go out and kill them for not putting out?

Was he simply failed by his therapy? Perhaps...but his being on the autism spectrum should not be considered the major factor in his issues as much as his underlying sociopathy and other possible personality disorders that may have failed to be diagnosed properly...because no one paid enough attention? Badly handled autistics CAN slide into co-morbid states...and its obvious that he was a very sick guy.

The fact that the police were called by his therapist and his parents and did nothing to help prevent his murderous outbreak IS something that ought to be paid attention to. Is there no functional fail safe mechanism that would respect the rights and responsibilities of both individuals and society at large? This is a social structural question that really begs an answer. Once again, we're getting a whole lot of 20/20 hindsight on this train wreck.



Last edited by BornThisWay on 25 May 2014, 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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25 May 2014, 12:39 pm

TheGoggles wrote:
Is this an IMAX theater? Because I'm seeing a ton of projection.
Indeed it is did you get your buttered popcorn and large soda? :lol:


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25 May 2014, 12:51 pm

marshall wrote:
Hopper wrote:
marshall wrote:
Hopper wrote:
And it wasn't that he wanted something he couldn't get. It was that (in his mind) he was entitled to something he didn't have. It's felt not so much as an unfulfilled desire, but a loss of something you could swear you once had; something wasn't kept from you so much as taken from you.


Someone like that will come up with any rationalization. The rationalization is the most offensive part to you, but I don't think feeling entitled alone causes someone to murder. He had a bruised ego and was painting himself the victim. His ego was the biggest problem, not his feeling entitled to sex.


I think there are many contributing factors here, as there are in many crimes. I don't think I've said entitlement alone caused him to murder. What I do see is that i) this entitlement turns up in a lot of places, including here, ii) if he did not have such a sense of entitlement, he may have been a more psychologically healthy individual and iii) there's a lot of umming and aahing over the possible causes, considering everything except misogynist entitlement - inded, actually dismissing it - in a pretty crude display of denial.


Disproportionate sexual objectification of women is an issue in our society. I'm not some MRA douchebag who wants to turn the clock back to the 19th century. I just don't think this guy went on a murder rampage because he felt women were inferior and should be his sex slaves. He murdered because he was full of self-loathing and anger and used misogyny to rationalize it. Why was he full of self-loathing? Probably because he grew up spoiled rich in an environment where he associated with mostly other spoiled rich idiots, a narcissistic image obsessed culture. He lived in a bubble.


There will be no single reason why he murdered. There will be many factors that played a part. There always are.

Why he went on his rampage is more complex than the particular rampage he intended to go on. Class and wealth is surely an issue, as are various social messages, etc. The focus of his rage, the way he came to understand it, to subjectivise it, was women. And there were many people happy to encourage him in the righteousness of that focus, and many people now bizarrely refusing to see it.

One of the oldest stories in the book - the woman makes me want to have sex with her. She won't have sex with me. Whore.
He didn't choose cops. Or lecturers. Or psychologists. Or latinos. Or dog owners. He chose women, and a hell of a lot of men don't see a thing wrong in that, let alone that it might be noteworthy.


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25 May 2014, 12:58 pm

It kinda reminds me of this [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KElyLrrTLB0[/youtube]


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25 May 2014, 1:24 pm

Hopper wrote:
marshall wrote:
Hopper wrote:
marshall wrote:
Hopper wrote:
And it wasn't that he wanted something he couldn't get. It was that (in his mind) he was entitled to something he didn't have. It's felt not so much as an unfulfilled desire, but a loss of something you could swear you once had; something wasn't kept from you so much as taken from you.


Someone like that will come up with any rationalization. The rationalization is the most offensive part to you, but I don't think feeling entitled alone causes someone to murder. He had a bruised ego and was painting himself the victim. His ego was the biggest problem, not his feeling entitled to sex.


I think there are many contributing factors here, as there are in many crimes. I don't think I've said entitlement alone caused him to murder. What I do see is that i) this entitlement turns up in a lot of places, including here, ii) if he did not have such a sense of entitlement, he may have been a more psychologically healthy individual and iii) there's a lot of umming and aahing over the possible causes, considering everything except misogynist entitlement - inded, actually dismissing it - in a pretty crude display of denial.


Disproportionate sexual objectification of women is an issue in our society. I'm not some MRA douchebag who wants to turn the clock back to the 19th century. I just don't think this guy went on a murder rampage because he felt women were inferior and should be his sex slaves. He murdered because he was full of self-loathing and anger and used misogyny to rationalize it. Why was he full of self-loathing? Probably because he grew up spoiled rich in an environment where he associated with mostly other spoiled rich idiots, a narcissistic image obsessed culture. He lived in a bubble.


There will be no single reason why he murdered. There will be many factors that played a part. There always are.

Why he went on his rampage is more complex than the particular rampage he intended to go on. Class and wealth is surely an issue, as are various social messages, etc. The focus of his rage, the way he came to understand it, to subjectivise it, was women. And there were many people happy to encourage him in the righteousness of that focus, and many people now bizarrely refusing to see it.

One of the oldest stories in the book - the woman makes me want to have sex with her. She won't have sex with me. Whore.

He didn't choose cops. Or lecturers. Or psychologists. Or latinos. Or dog owners. He chose women, and a hell of a lot of men don't see a thing wrong in that, let alone that it might be noteworthy.



Yes, as I said before, it not a matter of lack of affection/sex/love, those are merely triggers for a criminal mind to do it but none is a cause, the main cause of this act was hatred against women, it's a matter of belief, he believed that women are bad and deserve to be killed.

Monks don't have a sexual life yet most of them are peaceful people (pedophile cases aside) toward women and men - because they believe in peace.

On the other hand Taliban men don't have a lack of sex, they marry many and they can get away of enforced sex, yet they repeatedly beat/kill their wives and daughters for various silly reasons because they believe they're inferior and deserve all this.

I am personally really offended by those who are claiming that any male facing loneliness, rejections and absence of love and sex in his life will eventually becomes a potential criminal of some sort.