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Who are the Self Proclaimed Nice Guys here?

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Yuzu
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06 Mar 2014, 10:51 pm

AspergianMutantt wrote:
salamandaqwerty wrote:

Do you not see that associating rape and abuse with males feelings of rejection is insinuating that it is the woman's fault for rejecting sexual advances.
This is where your thinking is disturbing and highly offensive
I wasn't going off at you, I was politely challenging your insight.


I was not insinuating that its womans fault at all, and if it sounded that way thats not how I meant it. no one is entitled to anything.
But that does not detract from the facts of how much abuse and violence there are toward women.
And how much more there will likely be if the issues are never addressed.


I think you were insinuating that it was women's fault. Let's look at what you said.
AspergianMutantt wrote:
It is true that no one is entitled to a relationship, but its an instinctual drive thats not easily ignored, it leaves a persons life feeling hollow or not whole if gone unfulfilled, in a way its a basic human need.

More and more men are starting to complain, its becoming almost epidemic. some may even get resentful if not even violent. women complain about abusive men yet ignoring this common drive or instinctual need will make them become more aggressive. life is not fair, but there must be some kind of balance between the sex's or I am fearful eventually all hell is going to break loose.

Ignoring it by saying no one is entitled, or its not your problem but theirs, could well backfire in societies face.

So in the last sentence, who were you saying doing the ignoring? Who's saying "it's not my problem but theirs"? WOMEN?
Aren't you saying that it's NOT those men's fault that they cannot control their urges?
Who's fault do you think it is then? I think you are insinuating that women not reciprocating these men's "instinctual drive" and "basic human need" are to blame.



AspergianMutantt
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06 Mar 2014, 11:26 pm

Yuzu wrote:
AspergianMutantt wrote:
salamandaqwerty wrote:

Do you not see that associating rape and abuse with males feelings of rejection is insinuating that it is the woman's fault for rejecting sexual advances.
This is where your thinking is disturbing and highly offensive
I wasn't going off at you, I was politely challenging your insight.


I was not insinuating that its womans fault at all, and if it sounded that way thats not how I meant it. no one is entitled to anything.
But that does not detract from the facts of how much abuse and violence there are toward women.
And how much more there will likely be if the issues are never addressed.


I think you were insinuating that it was women's fault. Let's look at what you said.
AspergianMutantt wrote:
It is true that no one is entitled to a relationship, but its an instinctual drive thats not easily ignored, it leaves a persons life feeling hollow or not whole if gone unfulfilled, in a way its a basic human need.

More and more men are starting to complain, its becoming almost epidemic. some may even get resentful if not even violent. women complain about abusive men yet ignoring this common drive or instinctual need will make them become more aggressive. life is not fair, but there must be some kind of balance between the sex's or I am fearful eventually all hell is going to break loose.

Ignoring it by saying no one is entitled, or its not your problem but theirs, could well backfire in societies face.

So in the last sentence, who were you saying doing the ignoring? Who's saying "it's not my problem but theirs"? WOMEN?
Aren't you saying that it's NOT those men's fault that they cannot control their urges?
Who's fault do you think it is then? I think you are insinuating that women not reciprocating these men's "instinctual drive" and "basic human need" are to blame.


I was meaning that ignoring the issues could only make things worse, not that its womans fault, but in ignoring them the men may become even more abusive and there become more of them. and then women would complain even more. the point is not that its womans fault, for it isn't, its that there are men out there who have resentment issues that needs to be addressed not ignored, just shifting blame or that of ignoring the issues will not make them go away.



Yuzu
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06 Mar 2014, 11:46 pm

AspergianMutantt wrote:
I was meaning that ignoring the issues could only make things worse, not that its womans fault, but in ignoring them the men may become even more abusive and there become more of them. and then women would complain even more. the point is not that its womans fault, for it isn't, its that there are men out there who have resentment issues that needs to be addressed not ignored, just shifting blame or that of ignoring the issues will not make them go away.


I think you are being deliberately vague.
Those men's issues need to be addressed to whom? Should not be ignored by whom?



AspergianMutantt
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06 Mar 2014, 11:54 pm

Let me put it more in simpler terms, although I was trying to avoid this statement it would still illustrate the point.

If men were to greatly out number the women, the males would become much more aggressive, more then likely not to only just other males, but toward the females as well, perhaps even resentful. which could translate into abuse.

Now its not that men out number the women, its that there are many whom are just not relationship material. but just because their not does not mean they don't have feelings and could become resentful. and the numbers of discontented men are growing along with the populations, and it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the batch, as other males are stigmatized by societies resentments of those males that done wrong by acting as if all men are abusive that way, when their not. the point being if their needs are ignored it can only make things worse, esp for the women getting abused. I don't have the answers, I was just trying to point out that just ignoring their issues will only make things worse.



Last edited by AspergianMutantt on 07 Mar 2014, 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yuzu
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07 Mar 2014, 12:05 am

AspergianMutantt wrote:
Let me put it more in simpler terms, although I was trying to avoid this statement it would still illustrate the point.

If men were to greatly out number the women, the males would become much more aggressive, more then likely not to only just other males, but toward the females as well, perhaps even resentful. which could translate into abuse.

Now its not that men do out number the women, its that there are many whom are just not relationship material. but just because their not does not mean they don't have feelings. and the numbers of discontented men are growing along with the populations, and it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the batch, as other males are stigmatized by societies resentments of those males that done wrong by acting as if all men are made that way, when their not. the point being if their needs are ignored it can only make things worse, esp for the women getting abused. I don't have the answers, I was just trying to point out that just ignoring their issues will only make things worse.


I asked you two simple questions and yet you're still avoiding to answer.
Let me ask you again. Who, are you saying, is ignoring those men's issues?



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07 Mar 2014, 12:06 am

Yuzu wrote:
AspergianMutantt wrote:
Let me put it more in simpler terms, although I was trying to avoid this statement it would still illustrate the point.

If men were to greatly out number the women, the males would become much more aggressive, more then likely not to only just other males, but toward the females as well, perhaps even resentful. which could translate into abuse.

Now its not that men do out number the women, its that there are many whom are just not relationship material. but just because their not does not mean they don't have feelings. and the numbers of discontented men are growing along with the populations, and it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the batch, as other males are stigmatized by societies resentments of those males that done wrong by acting as if all men are made that way, when their not. the point being if their needs are ignored it can only make things worse, esp for the women getting abused. I don't have the answers, I was just trying to point out that just ignoring their issues will only make things worse.


I asked you two simple questions and yet you're still avoiding to answer.
Let me ask you again. Who, are you saying, is ignoring those men's issues?


Society.



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07 Mar 2014, 12:34 am

Thank you.

I don't know how "society" should handle those men whose "basic human instinctual needs" are not met, thus get abusive towards women.

Chemical castration? I doubt they'd volunteer for it though.



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07 Mar 2014, 12:37 am

AspergianMutantt wrote:
Yuzu wrote:
AspergianMutantt wrote:
Let me put it more in simpler terms, although I was trying to avoid this statement it would still illustrate the point.

If men were to greatly out number the women, the males would become much more aggressive, more then likely not to only just other males, but toward the females as well, perhaps even resentful. which could translate into abuse.

Now its not that men do out number the women, its that there are many whom are just not relationship material. but just because their not does not mean they don't have feelings. and the numbers of discontented men are growing along with the populations, and it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the batch, as other males are stigmatized by societies resentments of those males that done wrong by acting as if all men are made that way, when their not. the point being if their needs are ignored it can only make things worse, esp for the women getting abused. I don't have the answers, I was just trying to point out that just ignoring their issues will only make things worse.


I asked you two simple questions and yet you're still avoiding to answer.
Let me ask you again. Who, are you saying, is ignoring those men's issues?


Society.


okay I will just get on the phone and inform society that all woman must start giving men affection because otherwise there will be a massive outbreak of rape. :roll:


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07 Mar 2014, 1:11 am

AspergianMutantt wrote:
Marcia wrote:
I don't think BrianRuns or billiscool are Nice Guys ™.

Brian is, I think, someone with very low self-esteem, which is combined with desperation and a sense of being doomed. Not a good combination. Bill, well, just isn't very cool at all and is pretty clueless.

Nice Guys ™ are really misogynists, who think that they are entitled to a relationship simply because they have a pulse and a penis.


Remember when bullying in schools got so bad, that kids started taking matters into their own hands by going on shooting rampages? when peoples own loved ones come under threat it makes others listen and try and do something about it, where before many ignored the problems until they became rampant then exploded.

It is true that no one is entitled to a relationship, but its an instinctual drive thats not easily ignored, it leaves a persons life feeling hollow or not whole if gone unfulfilled, in a way its a basic human need.

More and more men are starting to complain, its becoming almost epidemic. some may even get resentful if not even violent. women complain about abusive men yet ignoring this common drive or instinctual need will make them become more aggressive. life is not fair, but there must be some kind of balance between the sex's or I am fearful eventually all hell is going to break loose.

Men and women are made different and have different needs, there is no such thing as equality between the sex's, when you complement one without balancing the other then your going to have discord.

Ignoring it by saying no one is entitled, or its not your problem but theirs, could well backfire in societies face.


This is utter rubbish. People aren't going to go on a violent rampage because they're lonely and what you're saying is disturbing. Some people die at old age without ever getting married, it doesn't mean that they'd go on violent rampage, that's ridiculous.



Yuzu
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07 Mar 2014, 1:23 am

salamandaqwerty wrote:
AspergianMutantt wrote:
Yuzu wrote:
AspergianMutantt wrote:
Let me put it more in simpler terms, although I was trying to avoid this statement it would still illustrate the point.

If men were to greatly out number the women, the males would become much more aggressive, more then likely not to only just other males, but toward the females as well, perhaps even resentful. which could translate into abuse.

Now its not that men do out number the women, its that there are many whom are just not relationship material. but just because their not does not mean they don't have feelings. and the numbers of discontented men are growing along with the populations, and it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the batch, as other males are stigmatized by societies resentments of those males that done wrong by acting as if all men are made that way, when their not. the point being if their needs are ignored it can only make things worse, esp for the women getting abused. I don't have the answers, I was just trying to point out that just ignoring their issues will only make things worse.


I asked you two simple questions and yet you're still avoiding to answer.
Let me ask you again. Who, are you saying, is ignoring those men's issues?


Society.


okay I will just get on the phone and inform society that all woman must start giving men affection because otherwise there will be a massive outbreak of rape. :roll:


Oh no, he's not suggesting such a ridiculous and outrageous idea. Are you, Aspergianmutant?
Because it's not women's fault. Women don't have to do anything they don't wanna do. We've established that.



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07 Mar 2014, 1:32 am

Jono wrote:
People aren't going to go on a violent rampage because they're lonely


Actually most of the NTs probably would if deprived of their electronic-devices for awhile. lol



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07 Mar 2014, 1:51 am

AAAAAAAARGGghhhhh!

Rampage mode!! !

*Fart*

Phew, I hate bean effect.


Guys, Georges Sodini would probably have killed his wife or went physically abusive if he was married and his marriage didn't go the way he wanted.



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07 Mar 2014, 1:55 am

Venger: Hey, I might riot* if deprived of my computer.


* I'll start my riot with a brisk bout of drinking, some pouting, a little swearing and some crying, and work my way to being perturbed. Warn the neighbors!


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07 Mar 2014, 4:36 am

Eureka13 wrote:
Jono wrote:
mouthyb wrote:
The issue of entitlement is another key descriptor of "nice guys/women." It may seem like everyone else is managing to get into a relationship and easy to infer that everyone should be allowed to be in a relationship as a result of it, but there really is no central bureau of allowing people to have relationships. Sometimes, you just don't have a relationship and it's no one's fault.


So, does being bitter about a rejection count as entitlement? I've seen both men and women being bitter about that.


I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say yes, a little. The most mentally healthy thing anyone can do after a breakup that was not their choice is to accept that that wasn't the right person for them, and move on.

A little bit of resentment/anger/bitterness is perfectly normal, but if it turns into rotten behavior on someone's part (such as stalking, or endless badmouthing or backstabbing), then my take is: "no wonder the other person dumped them!" Use the anger as a motivating factor, recognize that you're better off without someone who obviously was capable of treating you worse than you deserved, and move on.

In the process, it helps if you try to recognize what went wrong and use the knowledge to your benefit. If the other person is shallow and incapable of recognizing what positives you brought to the relationship, try to eliminate shallow people from your potential future partner pool. If, OTOH, you were too clingy and needy, or bitchy/as*hole-y and demanding, work on improving that before you get into another relationship.

Every one of life's traumas is a potential learning experience. No one is judged by having suffered a traumatic event, but if you don't learn something from it, you're cheating yourself and the world around you.


I've never been in a official relationship or had a official gf. I've loved two women mutually(they said they loved me), 1 for a year the other for 4 months. I tend to defend them. people around me say they bad for me etc. I do realize that one does still sometimes say things to hurt me. Yet I don't be mean to her and defend her against others. Then wonder if what they say is true.

I do get upset after being rejected for not for who I am, but for what I have/don't have. Its gotten to the point where I read profiles read that "list" and feel so crappy for not meeting what clearly every guy is suppose to. I guess a temporary resentment that could lead to long term permanent resentment.I guess it depends on how much rejection my mind can take before cracking. My friend said I must have lots of gusto to keep at it. I don't know though. I've never met a guy that meets the "nice guy TM" I do know that I've been branded it by people that hardly know me off of just being nice. plus When i see nice guy it does confuse me to them meaning actually nice guys.

I don't expect things for being nice, Its just how I'm programed. I'm nice, non violent, caring, and compassionate. there's others, and I guess gusto now, is that like determination ?

I want a gf to love and express my romance/love to, to make her happy, so I keep going after that, despite that it hurts me a lot, My logic would say I stop, but Something else just keeps me going, Similar to why I can't kill myself.


Stalking seems like a lot of work, with no payoff anyways. unless the payoff is hurting someone? Do people think that by stalking the person, he/she will want them back?



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07 Mar 2014, 5:10 am

mouthyb wrote:
Venger: Hey, I might riot* if deprived of my computer.


* I'll start my riot with a brisk bout of drinking, some pouting, a little swearing and some crying, and work my way to being perturbed. Warn the neighbors!


Maybe AspergianMutantt is going to start a riot pressuring someone to hurry up and invent the fictional "Holodeck" from Star Trek.



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07 Mar 2014, 5:20 am

AspergianMutantt wrote:
I just take note of the growing crime rates of date rape and rape and other kinds of abuse toward women, and much I think is because of resentful males having those rejection issues. and as such as a growing problem ignoring how those things are affecting their lives is like fanning the fires.

What country are you in? Because that isn't the case in the US.
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