Who are the Self Proclaimed Nice Guys here?

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no one I don't buy it nor should you .

well said akin to the ones who say I'm not racist but ....

Maybe he is suggesting we identify and remove those bad apples from the batch? It's not a bad idea, but ethically it is a bit iffy. It's like that film with Tom Cruise, Minority Report, get rid of the criminals before they commit the crime. Maybe that's what he means?

Exactly, time-management is what makes relationships work. It's not about how much time you spend, it's about making the time around you that you have work in a relationship.

Yes, just my point of view is to make prevention before people gets to the point they do something wrong and commit suicide or end up in prisons. Yes no one is entitled to sex or a relationship, and some people just are not relationship material. but this does not solve the problems for those afflicted with the dilemma nor help them get passed it leaving them in a world of feeling hopeless frustrated and depressed, if not worse like resentful and angry. and as populations grow so does the number of those afflicted by those issues, and eventually as the numbers rise some of them is going to go off the deep end and more. I wasn't trying to defend them as if they had any right to do wrong, nor to justify any of it. I was just trying to express ignoring those issues could make things worse for all concerned. esp for the women who has to deal with all that frustration and abuse by those males.

All I been hearing is how women don't like this or that, and how no one is entitled, and that some just are not relationship material. where I hear nothing about helping those people. Only that its their problem, not yours. which is about what happened with all the bullying and the schools, until it blew up in their faces and couldnt be ignored any longer.

AspergianMutantt: The things you are dismissing as just "women don't like this/no one is entitled to a relationship/some people just aren't relationship material" ARE advice. It may not be the advice anyone wants, but that doesn't stop it from being the only advice available.

Moreover, there are any number of things in the discussion that men don't like either. It wouldn't be all that hard to find women who've stalked, or women who've tried to use emotional blackmail to get sex out of someone, or women who've spied on someone, etc. They are EVERYONE'S problem. See the stats here.

Please stop referring to oncoming violence, revolution or any other sort of violent uprising occurring because of men getting tired of not being in a relationship. You've been asked by both men and women. It is not going to happen, and continuing to link those two makes people uncomfortable around you.

Fine, ignore what you like.

Ignore there are men whom go through life so totally alone that they becomes so depressed I am sure now and then one offs him self. Ignore that some of those abusers women complain about can be circumvented with preventative measures before they even get that bad. thats right, the rejects and their feelings and needs and even their own lives are meaningless to you and society. women are an asset and men are dispensable. thats right, ignore them. not your or my problem. you really have no idea how much frustrating rejection some men have to endure to find even one mate, but oh wait, you don't care, your not male.

AspergianMutantt, do you have any constructive suggestions for how such men could be helped? Something that does not involve enslaving women, preferably.

I never said I had any answers, only that some issues are being ignored or not addressed.

But thats OK, Ill ignore it too, its the fad.
consider the subject dropped.

NO ONE has ignored this!! !! ! the last three or four pages are filled with responses to this, you are flogging a dead horse and being very insulting! I am a male and I have told you just how ridiculous and creepy you are sounding. This has officially pissed me off now!
There are heaps threads here about how hard men have it and when someone contradicts them they are shamed and insulted for not agreeing that it is somehow women's fault or discuss the absurd notion that abuse can somehow be justified as not the fault of the abuser.
go to a women s shelter and see the reality.

I'm sorry, but I don't exactly understand what a "nice guy" is? Are you guys referring to men who feel like they don't have a chance because they "aren't dogs like other men"? If that is so, at the same time that I can see how silly and irrational some "nice guys" are being in this thread, I can still empathize some.

It really hurts to feel like you're not even a love object, and it can seem nuts to think that no one's at fault when you feel like people just ignore you like you don't have any fault. It hurts a lot to see guys just offering up "hamburger" when you feel like you can offer the "prime rib". And it can be hard to confirm to yourself your own value, what you have to offer people, when you don't think you've seen that being confirmed much. Then you start to get a little disgusted with it, disgusted with the people who don't notice you, because you watch them feed on the slop until you think "well I guess all they deserve is that slop after all".

And no matter how much people point out the way things really are, how you are being delusional, it still doesn't change how it feels.

AspergianMutantt: Ignoring you or the point would.... mean no one was responding to you, or no one was responding to your point. Quite a few people have responded to both you and your point. No one is ignoring you. However, the situation you're responding to does not appear the same to the people who responded to you.

Paying attention to the point does NOT mean people have to agree with you. In fact, you've been asked to elaborate on what to do about this problem in a way which doesn't involve violence. Several people are specifically paying attention to you, even if they don't agree with you.

Plenty of people on these threads are lonely, frustrated, desperate for companionship or otherwise really depressed about their lives. You are the only person on this thread who is suggesting that this necessarily means violence will occur. Several people have tried to suggest to you, including other men in similar circumstances, that this is not a good response to the situation.

It is possible that you are actively alienating people in your life with that particular point of view. Please reconsider it.

See the problem is objectification and thinking of self and others in terms of value given and received. Human interactions are so much more than that. It's like music - can you put a value on a piece of music, or fix it so that it means and feels the same no matter when and how and where you listen to it? I don't think you can.
And as for your analogy of having to offer more than others but being overlooked - if that were really true it would be self evident and the women would beat the path to your door. People of value do not refer to others as slop.

Where do you get off on getting stuck on the idea that I seem to think violence is an answer or that I was my self was even thinking about it? NO, I read the news all the time and see so many suicides and sex and hate crimes and everything else, and then come here and listen to all these men having such a hard time of it them selves because of their own lonelyness and frustrations and some are really seriously depressed about those issues. and so I have to wonder to my self what all could be wrong. and in part I think its the men having to deal with all the frustrations and rejections. this justifies nothing, nor do I have any answers, I was only stating that much of this goes ignored by society. as for my self I have had relationships, and even a son, but I can feel for those who will never get to know those things. I have traveled long and far, and heard many of mens heartbreaks frustrations, I also know how abusive and violent men can be because I was abused by many my self. but being resentful or angry about it does no good, but what would is not ignoring there is a problem, simply acknowledging there is a problem is a start. and you cant say there is no problem when people suicide over such issues. it almost makes me feel that if a male was not relationship material then no one is going to give a crud about their emotional and mental well being.

AspergianMutantt: I get that impression because you keep typing it into your messages, which, I note, you keep editing. The following quotes are all yours.

Every single one of these suckers states or implies that violence toward women is a result of sexual frustration and is inevitable, if not justified, based on that frustration. Every time someone has tried (and where I'm from, this has been incredibly gentle in terms of disagreement) to point out that your words are being read that way (based on the common interpretation of terms), you say you're not implying that, and go on to restate the position that men's sexual frustration is going to cause them to commit violence against women.

Several people have tried to tell you that you don't represent them, have asked you to stop, have pointed out that sexual frustration is NOT a motive for violence and/or have tried to tell you that what you're saying is reading in a very creepy way. Your response to this has been to keep repeating yourself and to accuse everyone talking to you (five people at last count) of ignoring you.

This whole forum sees approximately six posts a week about loneliness. NO ONE IS IGNORING LONELINESS. What you're being told, however, is that:

1. Date rape and rape in the US are becoming LESS frequent, as per FBI stats. They may be talked about more in the news, but this doesn't mean they happen more frequently.

2. To keep saying that violence against women is a result of men feeling lonely and sexually frustrated is disturbing. Would you like me to publish links to studies done on rapists and their motivations? I can easily find them.

3. Rape is NOT what happens when men don't get enough, it's what happens when a rapist rapes someone. All men are not potential rape machines, and if I were male, I'd be REALLY insulted right now because you're essentially arguing that any man who is frustrated enough will go out and rape and/or commit mass homicide (the school shootings comment.) You're also arguing that there will be an epidemic of rape and killing sprees at some point, due to that frustration, and that the men that commit rape and violence aren't really at fault: it's somehow society's fault for ignoring them. (What that means, I have no idea. Several people have already asked you to explain without getting a response.)

4. Bad things happen to men and women--there's no reason to suppose that men are "special" in that regard.

Maybe it's not what you mean, but it is what you're saying. I don't know how to be any clearer than that.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that maybe this really isn't what you meant. Maybe (and I'm trying really hard to take this as nicely as possible) what you mean to say is that there are a lot of frustrated men out there. Fair enough. There's a lot of frustrated women out there, too. You should stop there, before you start threatening or forecasting a rape epidemic. That's where this starts to get super creepy.

You think wrong. And those who make violent crimes happen also are people who made wrong conclusions about something or have a belief system (the way they perceive and interpret what happens in the world and to themselves) that is not very helpful.

See, in this here thread, you are the bad apple.

So, let's use you as a demonstration. We have seen numbers of people trying to reason with you to no avail. Perhaps someone will have reported you to the moderators and you may have received a quiet word in your inbox?

What we can do to make you change your mind is very limited.

What you can do to change your own mind is without limits.

Your thinking and your actions are your responsibility, not of the society and the same goes for anyone else.

Let me know what you think about that.