how can I change my personality?
I'm not compatible at all with the quiet kind of aspie.
Do you think this may be the case for you?
I agree with you and Im not in a relationship with him anymore, its not a good combination to have someone who is over sensitive and someone who is undersensitive, it will always go wrong.
However the points he made were still valid as its not just him who dislikes me but everyone who has ever met me lol
Im very lonely and I am not going to be able to have friends or make a relationship work unless I can change smomewhat and be more sensitive to others needs/feelings and less over bearing.
Exactly! It's so hard to make people understand that social cues *do not exist* for me. I'm not missing them, or misunderstanding them. They do not happen at all, ever.
I think the training for very young children might be the best bet - social cues might work for them some day, like everything else learned at that age. But for me, it is so frustrating to have a social worker and a psychologist who just don't understand. How can I react to something invisible?
Exactly! It's so hard to make people understand that social cues *do not exist* for me. I'm not missing them, or misunderstanding them. They do not happen at all, ever.
I think the training for very young children might be the best bet - social cues might work for them some day, like everything else learned at that age. But for me, it is so frustrating to have a social worker and a psychologist who just don't understand. How can I react to something invisible?
yes thats it, its like its invisable, I just cant see it.
I think social workers and psychologists are the ones most unlikely to understand as they are probably people who are very sensitive to others feelings and body language and probably rely heavily in weighting peoples nonverbal signals more strongly during conversational interpreting. They probably can not even imagine what its like to be so different from them. But I dont think they would 'nag' blind people to see and deaf people to hear and tell them they should pay more attention and try harder. For me its like that bit of my brain is missing and it cant be solved by trying harder. Ive been trying harder all my life and its not worked!
harry_j_83
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lotusblossom
I can completely relate to you situation. Changing aspects of my personality is an issue I’m considering as well.
I actually don't think that there's anything destructive about the concept of changing certain characteristics if it is for the better. The real problem of course is that it will probably take a lot of effort and time. I’d say make this a year to two-year strategy if that sounds realistic.
I’ve been warned by many people to not try and change who I am, as allegedly, "this may lead to mental illness". ….. Yeah but on the other hand, I personally, am living alone and that's not exactly healthy for any human being either. To put it simply, the reason I want to change is because this might enable be around more people and enjoy their company.
I think you mentioned psychiatrists and/or counsellors as well. One thing to watch out for with "shrinks" (especially if they are "specifically trained to deal with those on the spectrum") is them trying to "make you accept who you are". The bottom is: if you think you want to change who you are, then do so. But do it because YOU want to, NOT because OTHERS want you to.
I can completely relate to you situation. Changing aspects of my personality is an issue I’m considering as well.
I actually don't think that there's anything destructive about the concept of changing certain characteristics if it is for the better. The real problem of course is that it will probably take a lot of effort and time. I’d say make this a year to two-year strategy if that sounds realistic.
I’ve been warned by many people to not try and change who I am, as allegedly, "this may lead to mental illness". ….. Yeah but on the other hand, I personally, am living alone and that's not exactly healthy for any human being either. To put it simply, the reason I want to change is because this might enable be around more people and enjoy their company.
I think you mentioned psychiatrists and/or counsellors as well. One thing to watch out for with "shrinks" (especially if they are "specifically trained to deal with those on the spectrum") is them trying to "make you accept who you are". The bottom is: if you think you want to change who you are, then do so. But do it because YOU want to, NOT because OTHERS want you to.
Ive not met a psychiatrist or therapist who has not wanted me to change my personality, I normally make them exasperated by my inabilty to change lol.
how do I go about chnageing my personality, it seems so fixed and ingrained.
I wonder if you could start with something small - almost at random - just to see what happens and how you feel about it.
Years ago I decided I was too prissy about my appearance and did something that I considered colossally radical: I went to the library wearing one earring instead of two. And I wore clothes of course. But I thought that one naked earlobe would have people pointing and gasping at me. Nobody noticed. Not one soul, not even the prissy librarians, noticed that I was being radical.
I've gotten progressively relaxed about my appearance since then. Last summer during a terrible heat wave I shaved my head - something I'd always wanted to do. It felt wonderful and by Christmas I had hair again.
So - can you think of a really radical thing you could do? Once you've done it, you can decide whether it's more or less like the real you.
You sound a lot like me. I worked a long time to "change my personality" or presentation. I still have that urge to speak that you mentioned, and often speak when I intended to shut up. Social cues are mostly invisible to me. I guess at them, based on what I have learned about them. My conclusion, then, has been that there is not enough listening and observing going on and too much outputting. Back off (I told myself, and so am telling you) and just pay attention, listen and try to learn. Yes, you will draw many blanks, but still listen as speaking is only getting you in trouble. Things are out of balance, and you need to pay attention to the outside a lot more.
When you do finally speak a rule of thumb is to ask as well as answer. Another rule of thumb is to answer briefly in one to three sentences. If you have a tendency to run-on sentences, then make them 3 short sentences. After speaking, return to listening with a vengeance, observing even though it's confusing, and trying to discern any subtle feeling reactions in the wake of what you've said. Look at people's faces as much as you can without making them uncomfortable.
Drugs may make you feel relaxed, and that's your call, but they won't give you independent control or deep understanding. It's great to start getting compliments on being thoughtful, helpful and sensitive. The old saw about we have two ears and one mouth so we can listen twice as much as we speak is my motto.
>If I replay situations in my head later Imight notice that people were making grimaces but I would still not notice it at the time or be able to know what the expression meant.
That's proof to me the information is there unconsciously and it's your conscious accessing of it that needs to improve. Slowing down and paying attention will help with practise. I understand well and have been totally frustrated by this experience of only understanding occasionally in hindsight, but I keep working on it so I can have interpersonal contacts and success in this world.
Another thing you said is that you didn't notice the raised hand. Focussing outward is difficult but essential. You must learn to be open and receptive. And then the really hard part (for me): switching back and forth between outside and inside. Task switching (urg!) between receptive and native mode. Very easy to get stuck in the latter, so you just have to keep trying.
HopeGrows
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You've gotten a lot of awfully good feedback already, but there's something you said that stood out to me:
With friends, its usually times when Im stressed as well so not performing well, I do not be considerate enough and not restrained enough in discussions. Im not good at letting other people say what they think, Im not a good listener and Im good at pointing out flaws in peoples logic and I will do even if its not a point of veiw Im opposed to, Im known for arguing if someone has flawed logic even if Im not interested in (or agree with) the subject/point itself at all.
If you were any NT describing the same type of behavior, I'd say you are a "truth screamer" - loosely defined as someone with a strong need to be heard, particularly when defending the truth or pointing out flawed logic is at stake. "Truth screaming" behavior is often associated with a dysfunctional childhood environment, for example, witnessing a significant pattern of unjust or illogical behavior, but being unable to do anything about it (because of youth, lack of power, etc.). It kind of sets one up to have the psychological/emotional need to over-vocalize this type of situation when they're encountered as an adult. Does this sound like it could apply to you? If so, therapy (working through the childhood experiences) might help you.
Because your behavior is impacting all of your personal relationships, I'm inclined to agree with the posters who have suggested that there are actions you can take to improve your chances of success in the future. I appreciate that you are not able to recognize social cues. I have no idea if there is training that can improve your abilities in this area. However, even if you can't improve in social cue recognition area, is it possible that you could adopt different conversational behaviors? For example, can you incorporate frequent pauses in your conversations to solicit feedback? Even if you have to time yourself to do it (until you get in the habit more naturally)? It may seem kind of silly, but could you ask questions such as, "Since I really don't read people very well, can you tell me how you're responding to what I've said?"
I guess I wouldn't expect you to be something you're not, or behave in a way that you're incapable of behaving, but can you work with a professional (with expertise in Asperger's) who can help you develop behaviors to compensate for your deficits?
_________________
What you feel is what you are and what you are is beautiful...
With friends, its usually times when Im stressed as well so not performing well, I do not be considerate enough and not restrained enough in discussions. Im not good at letting other people say what they think, Im not a good listener and Im good at pointing out flaws in peoples logic and I will do even if its not a point of veiw Im opposed to, Im known for arguing if someone has flawed logic even if Im not interested in (or agree with) the subject/point itself at all.
If you were any NT describing the same type of behavior, I'd say you are a "truth screamer" - loosely defined as someone with a strong need to be heard, particularly when defending the truth or pointing out flawed logic is at stake. "Truth screaming" behavior is often associated with a dysfunctional childhood environment, for example, witnessing a significant pattern of unjust or illogical behavior, but being unable to do anything about it (because of youth, lack of power, etc.). It kind of sets one up to have the psychological/emotional need to over-vocalize this type of situation when they're encountered as an adult. Does this sound like it could apply to you? If so, therapy (working through the childhood experiences) might help you.
Because your behavior is impacting all of your personal relationships, I'm inclined to agree with the posters who have suggested that there are actions you can take to improve your chances of success in the future. I appreciate that you are not able to recognize social cues. I have no idea if there is training that can improve your abilities in this area. However, even if you can't improve in social cue recognition area, is it possible that you could adopt different conversational behaviors? For example, can you incorporate frequent pauses in your conversations to solicit feedback? Even if you have to time yourself to do it (until you get in the habit more naturally)? It may seem kind of silly, but could you ask questions such as, "Since I really don't read people very well, can you tell me how you're responding to what I've said?"
I guess I wouldn't expect you to be something you're not, or behave in a way that you're incapable of behaving, but can you work with a professional (with expertise in Asperger's) who can help you develop behaviors to compensate for your deficits?
its a funny thing as already I tell people I cant read their expression and could they tell me what it means and they just react angrily, which seems very odd and unhelpful. My childrens social worker will rephraze things for me and say what she is responding to me but Ive not found anyone else who does.
I have an appointment on thursday with a Dr in councilling psychology specialising in autism who is my childs psychologist and she wants to work with me on how my asperger negatively impacts on my childrens mental health so Im sure she will have some ideas of techniques I can use to be more pleasant.
I would not say I was a 'truth screamer' but just an insensitive know it all which a lot of aspies are unfortuneately (think hermione granger or Wittgenstein).
aswell, if I do use such techniques as you suggest (pauseing regualrly) Im still not sure it will achieve what I want, Im not sure it would seem close in a relationship, perhaps too false and forced and Im not sure I can not keep it up 24/7.
HopeGrows
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I have an appointment on thursday with a Dr in councilling psychology specialising in autism who is my childs psychologist and she wants to work with me on how my asperger negatively impacts on my childrens mental health so Im sure she will have some ideas of techniques I can use to be more pleasant.
I would not say I was a 'truth screamer' but just an insensitive know it all which a lot of aspies are unfortuneately (think hermione granger or Wittgenstein).
aswell, if I do use such techniques as you suggest (pauseing regualrly) Im still not sure it will achieve what I want, Im not sure it would seem close in a relationship, perhaps too false and forced and Im not sure I can not keep it up 24/7.
That's really great news about working with your child's psychologist. I think it might make sense to tell your child's psychologist how your children's social worker rephrases things for you, and how you find that helpful (and why). Ask the psychologist if he/she could use that technique while working with you.
I'm puzzled by peoples' reaction to asking for help interpreting their expressions. Do they know you have Asperger's? If they do and they react the same way, can you educate them? Sit them down and show them a website that explains that an inability to read facial expressions can absolutely be a symptom? If they understand that it's a symptom of your disability and they still get angry, get rid of them. It's like being angry at a paraplegic for being unable to walk - WTF?
I'm not sure if pausing regularly will achieve what you want, either....I'm sure your child's psychologist can provide better input than I can. It's worth mentioning that some new behaviors often feel unnatural when you first start them, and they begin to feel more natural with repetition....until they become pretty natural.
I'd also guard against characterizations that seem kinda negative, like calling yourself an "insensitive know it all." I understand you're acknowledging your issues with sensitivity, but try to acknowledge your positive traits as well.
_________________
What you feel is what you are and what you are is beautiful...
I have an appointment on thursday with a Dr in councilling psychology specialising in autism who is my childs psychologist and she wants to work with me on how my asperger negatively impacts on my childrens mental health so Im sure she will have some ideas of techniques I can use to be more pleasant.
I would not say I was a 'truth screamer' but just an insensitive know it all which a lot of aspies are unfortuneately (think hermione granger or Wittgenstein).
aswell, if I do use such techniques as you suggest (pauseing regualrly) Im still not sure it will achieve what I want, Im not sure it would seem close in a relationship, perhaps too false and forced and Im not sure I can not keep it up 24/7.
That's really great news about working with your child's psychologist. I think it might make sense to tell your child's psychologist how your children's social worker rephrases things for you, and how you find that helpful (and why). Ask the psychologist if he/she could use that technique while working with you.
I'm puzzled by peoples' reaction to asking for help interpreting their expressions. Do they know you have Asperger's? If they do and they react the same way, can you educate them? Sit them down and show them a website that explains that an inability to read facial expressions can absolutely be a symptom? If they understand that it's a symptom of your disability and they still get angry, get rid of them. It's like being angry at a paraplegic for being unable to walk - WTF?
I'm not sure if pausing regularly will achieve what you want, either....I'm sure your child's psychologist can provide better input than I can. It's worth mentioning that some new behaviors often feel unnatural when you first start them, and they begin to feel more natural with repetition....until they become pretty natural.
I'd also guard against characterizations that seem kinda negative, like calling yourself an "insensitive know it all." I understand you're acknowledging your issues with sensitivity, but try to acknowledge your positive traits as well.
I think people probably react negatively to me asking them to explain their facial expression etc as they do not accept I have aspergers, they think Im just insufferable know it all who is rude and annoying lol. It can be quite hard to get people to beleive I have AS and then even with ones who do its hard to get them to accept the implications of that. People find it hard to beleive that someone who has an msc in psychology cant read facial expression and other things which they find simple. My childs other therapist thinks Im just trying to be difficult and seems to take my asking for clarification as insulting his explanations, but I think he does not 'get it' at all as he has told me off for lack of imagination and black and white thinking so 'nuff said' really.
Im hopeful of the one Im seeing on Thurs as when I saw her on 2 previous occasions she had a good understanding of AS and is not derogatory toward AS.
I do not think I need to worry about being negative toward myself but need to worry more about thinking that if I acknowledge my faults then I dont need to change them! Im sure I do not mind being a know all as much as everyone else minds me being one
HopeGrows
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Im hopeful of the one Im seeing on Thurs as when I saw her on 2 previous occasions she had a good understanding of AS and is not derogatory toward AS.
I do not think I need to worry about being negative toward myself but need to worry more about thinking that if I acknowledge my faults then I dont need to change them! Im sure I do not mind being a know all as much as everyone else minds me being one
As for the therapist who thinks you're being "difficult," perhaps you could ask him to contact the social worker who does understand how to communicate with you most effectively? It just seems unacceptable to me that someone charged with his responsibilities could be so woefully ignorant. Seriously, if he doesn't understand your issues, how can he hope to deal with you effectively when it comes to your kids?
As for you being an acquired taste, that's true of anyone who's unique I guess. I think there's probably a middle road somewhere between modifying your behavior and pretending to be someone you're not. It does take a strong person to be able to admit they've got issues that need to be/can be addressed....it's better to explore what you can do differently than accept the loneliness. I hope your meeting goes well this week.
_________________
What you feel is what you are and what you are is beautiful...
Im hopeful of the one Im seeing on Thurs as when I saw her on 2 previous occasions she had a good understanding of AS and is not derogatory toward AS.
I do not think I need to worry about being negative toward myself but need to worry more about thinking that if I acknowledge my faults then I dont need to change them! Im sure I do not mind being a know all as much as everyone else minds me being one
As for the therapist who thinks you're being "difficult," perhaps you could ask him to contact the social worker who does understand how to communicate with you most effectively? It just seems unacceptable to me that someone charged with his responsibilities could be so woefully ignorant. Seriously, if he doesn't understand your issues, how can he hope to deal with you effectively when it comes to your kids?
As for you being an acquired taste, that's true of anyone who's unique I guess. I think there's probably a middle road somewhere between modifying your behavior and pretending to be someone you're not. It does take a strong person to be able to admit they've got issues that need to be/can be addressed....it's better to explore what you can do differently than accept the loneliness. I hope your meeting goes well this week.
yeah, he meets with the social worker at their monthy professionals meeting (all the professional involved with my family meet to discuss my case), the SW really likes him, I dont understand it, I guess he must be nice to her as she is a sw and not a nutty parent/patient. She understands my problem though and is looking into an advocate for me to take with me to the appointment who can nudge me when Im doing the wrong thing and stand up for me when he is being unfair. Its difficult as he is a top london psychotherapist and well respected in his field so no one is going to take my opinion over his. And he is mean to my child too (who has AS) and says when she is trying to talk about japan that she is useing her intelect to give him a set down, when really she is just genuinely wanting to talk about japan.
yes its one thing to read Thich Nhat Hanhs books (or any other author on Buddhism) and quite another to become like them.
It does give hope though that if Angulimala (finger neclace) the fierce serial killer could become one of the Buddhas friends and best bodhisattvas, then there is hope yet for me
http://angulimala.org.uk/the-story-of-angulimala/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angulimala
