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I don't think they are.

A lot of women are very needy. I think it's an unfair generalisation.

Feminism is all about freeing women from men and giving them as many choices as possible. Seemingly absent, however, is an analysis on how these choices affect men. For instance, take the example of the single feminist career woman who remains single and doesn't settle down until late in life, if ever. The gender ratio is very nearly 1:1; nature has made sure of it. This means that for every woman who is single and not in a relationship, one guy is forced to be alone, regardless of whether he wants to be alone or not.

When feminism liberated women from the expectation that they should settle down with a guy when fairly young, it necessarily created involuntary celibate men. Of course, a large number of these men will find a woman later on in life, but that is only because the women are deciding to settle down. The choice has been completely ripped away from men. Many men are suffering as incels in their late teens and possibly during their entire 20s because of this, a time when they are arguably the most sensitive to adversity and need companionship the most. (As an aside, this could be partly to explain for the meteoric rise of suicide among young adult men post-feminism.)

Feminists, and sadly nearly all women, seem to fail to understand this. It's not fair to men that women get to satisfy their urges, while men are completely left alone with no choice at all. It's not even being left to fend for themselves in an unbalanced system; it's being completely shut off from the market.

And what's the response that women say to men suffering from this? "You'll find someone someday," "be patient," "look at the good sides in life," etc. They're basically expecting men to be ascetic monks with no companionship or sex needs for years, even decades, while women are allowed to freely do whatever they want. Whatever happened to the concept of ones freedom ending where the others begins?

Now how could women justify this? Well, they could just be plain clueless as to its harmfulness. And in a lot of cases, that's exactly what's going on, especially since this has been going on for several decades and has plenty of cheerleaders from both sexes. But the original women who came up with this had to have known what was going on- or did they? I feel they just had a hatred of men and wanted to gain a leg up on them at whatever cost, and didn't think through the consequences. Sadly, they had (and still have) so much support that the ill effects have been completely swept under the rug. Even many men who have themselves been screwed over and forced into celibacy cheer for the system, incapable of putting the pieces together.

Of course, the problem is, when you screw people over, they tend to be less willing to work for the system. Even many manginas who still buy in to the system, but have gotten screwed over by it, don't put as much into it. How, you ask? Don't they enthusiastically support it? Well, it doesn't need to be a conscious thing. Sure, they've been brainwashed into thinking this system is forward-thinking and progressive, but deep down they have been hurt by it on some level, so they lack the motivation that reasonably well-rewarded men have. These guys tend to get less hard-charging jobs, tend to not innovate as much, and tend to not earn as much as well-motivated men. They tend to channel their resultant rage into an endless variety of ridiculous causes, wasting time and energy. Ultimately, this slows societal progress down to the point where another saner society is allowed to grow and either makes it insignificant, forcibly subjects it or destroys it.

Feminists are basically eating the seed corn of society, and the behavior they espouse is ultimately the kiss of death if men don't wake up and resist it en masse.

^ That sounds very much like "women should settle for men they don't like just so the men don't have to feel sad because they're horny. It's bad that women can now choose who they sleep with."
Please feel free to explain to me what you actually meant if I've misinterpreted.

Here is a thing to consider.

In many of the threads here I've noticed that it is pointed out that just because women are approached it doesn't mean that they are approached by men that they are interested in. The implication being that, if men were put in the supposedly easier position that women are in, they'd make the same choices that women make (or at least that is how I interpret it). This may be true, in fact I think it very probably is true. However, chronically single men are just not put in the position, the way women are (or at least not nearly as often as women are), of having to reject advances from those they find unappealing.

That is to say that women, while they are likely no less unhappy about being single, at least are in a position to realize that the are worse options out there. While most men, never being confronted by those other options, can only fixate on their failures. Sadly, it seems the only real way for a man in that position to understand that there really are worse options than being single, and thus to be able to understand women's choices, is to have a couple of really bad relationships of his own.

Seriously. I'm trying, but I'm just not seeing any other interpretation of it. Though I have heard similar arguments in favor of legalizing prostitution.

I haven't read any reputable study citing either gender was more happy being single though I'd be interested in reading where you got your evidence from.

A lot of men are likely very upset at being single because to them a relationship is a steady sex supply as well as in my experience men don't tend to have a strong or wide emotional support system so their female partner acts as his.

Last edited by AnonymousGIrl on 24 Oct 2012, 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Seems your mindset is that women having freedom is bad for men because men no longer get an almost guaranteed sex partner. The gender ratio doesn't necessarily mean that for every woman who is single there is a man as not everyone is heterosexual and for this woman/man dichotomy to be you'd have to subtract those that are homosexual, objectum-sexual, and asexual (with no interest in a partner).


Seems your overlooking before feminism's liberation many women's choice where completely ripped away from them as they often had to rely on a man for financial survival so I'm not seeing not having sex as much suffering in comparison to having unwanted sex. Perhaps you think men not having sex is far worse than a woman having unwanted sex. (?) I doubt those men are involuntary celibate considering the availability of prostitutes and perhaps it would suit those 'incel' men to see; companionship from their family and friends rather than seemingly relying on a woman to be his go-to.


Seems you fail to understand that men aren't completely left alone as they have prostitutes, escorts, foreign women, and mail order brides. It's not fair to me this 'woe is men because women are no longer almost guaranteed' implication that I'm getting from your post.


Seems more like women are basically expecting men not to regard women as a their sexual resource to be doled out and divided equally amongst men.


Seems it's more harmful for anyone to be pressured into a relationship for the sole sake of another person. I'm unsure what you mean by 'the original women who came up with this had to have known what was going on- or did they'. Do you mean the women who came up with feminism due to being considered lesser citizens and denied rights did so because they hated men and knew that in the future men would be 'harmed' by 'involuntary celibacy'?


Seems men are only being screwed over if they think of women as objects to be given to them. It's a bit amusing that your mindset seems to be that if men aren't given a woman they will become enraged less productive members of society.


It's quite telling how you seem to think that remaining single is a gender thing exclusive to women as a consequence of feminism rather than a people thing. Really telling how you chose to use the word mangina. Bit curious as to the rationale in men resisting feminism because women can stay single longer resulting in 'incel' men rather than men purchase prostitutes, seek foreign women, or order a bride?

Edit - Sorry all! I forgot my own advice! I never learn to stop walking into traps...

Again men aren't totally powerless as there are prostitutes, escorts, foreign women, and mail order brides. In my opinion there are few scenarios in which a person is totally powerless. I agree with Who Am I as it's quite telling how you seem to think that remaining single is a gender thing exclusive to women as a consequence of feminism rather than a people thing. As well as how you think men are being screwed over and suffering involuntary celibacy as it seems men are only being screwed over if they think of women as objects to be given to them.

Bit curious as to what is your idea on what to do to save these guys from the pain and suffering that is not having sex.

More curious as to why you seem to think women should care about guys being 'involuntarily celibate'.

Again this seems reminiscent of disregarding women as human beings and regarding women as a sexual resource to be doled out and divided equally amongst men.

Do tell where and when did deny the existence or claim that the problems are easily solved......oh that's right nowhere. I said I doubted these men are involuntary celibates considering the availability of prostitution, escorts, foreign women, and mail order brides. Having doubts about how involuntary their celibacy isn't denying their existence.

Seems this 'can't help her see the error of her ways' is an evasion tactic on responding to the illogical points of your post and answering what is your rationale in men resisting feminism because women can stay single longer resulting in 'incel' men rather than men purchase prostitutes, seek foreign women, or order a bride.

Edit: 'walking into a trap'...amusing

That was odd.

...amusing? Hardly. I could put article after article to help explain my point and it won't make a jot of difference, some people just don't want to know, care or bother to understand. So why waste time trying to help these people that just keep going on the whole 'Death to Men' routine. They show little to no respect to the lives of incels, or men's mental health and keep on the whole 'Women have suffered, now should Men' routine, that trying to have coherent and reasonable debate with them is impossible. So I'm not going to waste my time.

It is amusing and seems more like an evasion as stating my curiosity and questioning on what you think should be done does imply I'm trying to know and bothering to understand. Nowhere on this thread to my recollection did I see anyone state, suggest, or imply anything related a 'Death to Men' or Women have suffered, now should Men' routine so it seems more like 'you don't have a coherent and reasonable response' rather than 'you're not going to waste your time'.

I don't prefer to be single, but I guess I feel like I have so many issues I wouldn't want to subject someone to that. I suppose my best bet is to be up front about it as much as I can though that way if someone doesn't want to take that on that on they know ahead of time.

I'm having trouble understanding why some think feminism has increased the number of single men. Marriage rates may have dropped, and people may marry at a later age. From everything I've obsevered, that doesn't mean they stop having romantic and sexual relationships. In fact, part of the pattern seems to have been an increase in multiple (perhaps shortish) relationships and casual sex outside of marriage.

If you want to settle down with a life partner at twenty, then perhaps you'd been a bit worried about this trend, though certainly there are plenty of people who do get into serious relationships young still - I've known quite a lot anyway. The trend doesn't effect everyone. But from what I can tell, the posts lamenting feminism say they'd be content with getting dates and sex with whoever, so I'm not sure why they would mind this trend. Some women now choose to enjoy not being married for a while; most of those still enjoy dating and relationships with men.

Most men have relationships. Most are even lucky enough to have the freedom to choose whether they want to get into a serious relationship or casual relationships and seek out partners who want the same kind of relationship they want. Marriages, relationships and sex are happening everywhere, and the majority of the time there is a man involved! Being single is simply not a problem that can be defined as inherent to males.

As has been said, some women are just not happy about being single. Some choose it, some choose it but wish they had better alternatives, some are forced into it because things just don't work out for whatever reason. Being female doesn't guarantee you choice. If a woman's only choice is being settled for/settling for someone where there are only negative feelings involved it makes no more sense to say she should be content with this than saying a man should be content with a prostitute: it only works if your desires for relations are entirely limited to something emotionless, which is extremely unlikely to be the case. Whether you're unhappy with your situation or not isn't determined by your gender but by whether your individual desires are being met by your situation or not.

Perhaps it'd help your understanding of how feminism increased the number of single men since it allowed women more financial security and control and influence social norms of a single woman being more acceptable. I think what J-Greens means (?) is that not enough women are having romantic and sexual relationships to men's satisfaction so now there are angry men who forced to endure the suffering of years without sex. I think the 'trend' affects some men who feel entitled or owed a partner and consider it a detriment to their mental health that they are so sad about not having sex when they want with who they want.

I agree with everything you said though this is the standout: "Whether you're unhappy with your situation or not isn't determined by your gender but by whether your individual desires are being met by your situation or not."

So what do you suggest? That women should start sleeping with anyone who asks?

Men aren't helpless. They have the option of figuring out how to make themselves appealing to women.
I'm sorry that it's no longer as easy as "having a steady job so she won't starve".

Too, I really question the relationship-fitness and general mental stability of people who liken being unable to find a willing sexual partner to something akin to sexual assault with words like "incel", let alone the implication that such a term is male-specific. No one is inflicting something on you.