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CrinklyCrustacean
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07 Jul 2014, 3:21 am

rdos wrote:
CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
vickygleitz wrote:
Turning down a date, while still flirting with him, is, in my opinion, the best way to do so without hurting feelings.

That's mean. He hears, "I'm not interested, sorry" from your mouth and sees, "I'm totally into you" in your body language. Talk about mixed signals!


Mean? Why? You have got it all wrong if you think flirting means "I want to have sex with you" or "I' have a crush on you" or anything similar. Flirting is just a kind of play where people show their potental interest in somebody, without comitting to anything. It's not much different from talking directly to somebody, other than being non-verbal.

So we agree: you're showing your interest with your body language, at the same time as saying in words that you're not interested. That's the definition of mixed messages.



rdos
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07 Jul 2014, 6:25 am

CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
So we agree: you're showing your interest with your body language, at the same time as saying in words that you're not interested. That's the definition of mixed messages.


Only if you think black-and-white. Flirting is a possible contact behavior, and just because you flirt with somebody doesn't mean you want a relationship or sex. Sometimes it is just a play, and sometimes it can go further and end up in a relationship, but there is no guarantee for that.



Eureka13
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07 Jul 2014, 10:35 am

I don't know that I even know how to flirt, so I sometimes make jokes to put other people at ease (and possibly myself, as well). Likewise, I don't always recognize when someone is flirting with me. Generally, the less well I know someone, the less likely I am to recognize their underlying motive unless they're giving off really strong signals.



vickygleitz
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07 Jul 2014, 11:57 am

rdos wrote:
CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
So we agree: you're showing your interest with your body language, at the same time as saying in words that you're not interested. That's the definition of mixed messages.


Only if you think black-and-white. Flirting is a possible contact behavior, and just because you flirt with somebody doesn't mean you want a relationship or sex. Sometimes it is just a play, and sometimes it can go further and end up in a relationship, but there is no guarantee for that.


WHen you flirt with someone, you are showing that you find then interesting and fun, it does not, nor has it ever meant that you are either looking for a serious relationship with the other person or that you are looking to get laid. For most guy, it is the same thing. Men are not just crazed animals looking for sex, and I find it terrible that so many women tend to think that way.



Eureka13
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07 Jul 2014, 12:32 pm

What if someone honestly can't tell the difference between flirting and just being friendly? I've had plenty of times when men thought I was flirting with them, and I was just being polite. It's safer (socially-speaking) for me to assume people are *not* flirting with me.

Truth is, if I like someone, they will know I like them. If I don't like them, they will probably know that, as well. For those of us who don't know how to flirt or how to recognize flirting, is there anything wrong with plain speaking? I'm genuinely curious about this.

One thing I do know is how to flirt *in* a relationship. I just don't know how to flirt to *get* into a relationship. (I've had plenty of relationships, so I don't think my M.O. of plain speaking is at all unsuccessful.) My late fiance captured my interest with plain speaking - it was so refreshing to meet someone who didn't beat around the bush but just came out and said what he meant. He really appreciated that I was the same way.



vickygleitz
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07 Jul 2014, 11:09 pm

Sounds like you're doing great. I think it is much more important to flirt within an ongoing relationship. So many people dont.



alien91
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08 Jul 2014, 4:53 am

vickygleitz wrote:

When I was young, one of the major concerns of my friends and I, was making sure that when we turned a guy down for a date, that we did not do so in a way that would devastate fragile male ego. Turning down a date, while still flirting with him, is, in my opinion, the best way to do so without hurting feelings.

No, just no. As a man I can tell you that this will piss a man off more then anything. One of my main gripes against women is too many of them like to tease us. If a woman is not interested in me I would prefer her to be honest and tell me in a polite manner. If you say no while flirting you are essentially telling him you are playing hard to get and he needs to try harder.



The_Face_of_Boo
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08 Jul 2014, 5:03 am

^ I second that, I prefer honesty, I prefer to know Why.



The_Face_of_Boo
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08 Jul 2014, 5:11 am

Eureka13 wrote:
I don't know that I even know how to flirt, so I sometimes make jokes to put other people at ease (and possibly myself, as well). Likewise, I don't always recognize when someone is flirting with me. Generally, the less well I know someone, the less likely I am to recognize their underlying motive unless they're giving off really strong signals.


I can teach you, for example you come to me and hit on me by saying "Wow, are you a model?"

















and then I would answer you "Wow, do you have Macropsia?"



hale_bopp
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08 Jul 2014, 5:28 am

You actually have to be careful, it pisses a lot of people off when you flirt with their husbands and wives.
You may think it's just for fun, but it doesn't come across that way to many others.



Outrider
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08 Jul 2014, 5:47 am

It's cruel to flirt with people with no further intentions.

I never saw the point in harmless "just-for-fun" flirting.

If you flirt with the same person like someone from school or work all the time; you're playing with a real person's feelings here.

Yes; not all flirting is for interest in dating or sex; that doesn't mean you won't always come across as this.

But different strokes for different folks; please just learn to live with the consequences. I agree with the above user; you need to be careful to flirt with people.

Some aren't single; and the one's that are may come to hate you for "tricking" them and playing with their feelings (a friend you flirt with "for fun" for example).



kraftiekortie
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08 Jul 2014, 5:48 am

Vicky don't lose my number!! !! !! ! :wink:



CrinklyCrustacean
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08 Jul 2014, 6:16 am

vickygleitz wrote:
rdos wrote:
CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
So we agree: you're showing your interest with your body language, at the same time as saying in words that you're not interested. That's the definition of mixed messages.


Only if you think black-and-white. Flirting is a possible contact behavior, and just because you flirt with somebody doesn't mean you want a relationship or sex. Sometimes it is just a play, and sometimes it can go further and end up in a relationship, but there is no guarantee for that.


WHen you flirt with someone, you are showing that you find then interesting and fun, it does not, nor has it ever meant that you are either looking for a serious relationship with the other person or that you are looking to get laid.

I have always understood that if someone fancies you, they will flirt with you, and if they don't fancy you, then they won't and (admittedly limited) personal experience has borne this out. So if you are just flirting for fun, how am I supposed to know? As alien91 put it, turning someone down while flirting with them just looks like you're playing hard to get.

Eureka13 wrote:
What if someone honestly can't tell the difference between flirting and just being friendly? I've had plenty of times when men thought I was flirting with them, and I was just being polite. It's safer (socially-speaking) for me to assume people are *not* flirting with me.


I have this problem too, though I can spot flirting if it's blatant enough.



rdos
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08 Jul 2014, 12:40 pm

CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
I have always understood that if someone fancies you, they will flirt with you, and if they don't fancy you, then they won't and (admittedly limited) personal experience has borne this out.


Well, it is true. At least I don't flirt with anybody that I don't fancy. However, that doesn't mean I want to do anything else than flirting.

CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
So if you are just flirting for fun, how am I supposed to know?


What do you want to know? If you can get up and talk to somebody? I suppose that if I am flirting with somebody it can always lead to other contact, but personally I want to aviod that. As a guy this isn't much of a problem as girls usually don't take initiative to approach. I feel kind of bad if this happens as then I'll need to turn them down some way, usually by not starting a conversation with them.



VegetableMan
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08 Jul 2014, 1:29 pm

Quote:
One thing I do know is how to flirt *in* a relationship. I just don't know how to flirt to *get* into a relationship. (I've had plenty of relationships, so I don't think my M.O. of plain speaking is at all unsuccessful.) My late fiance captured my interest with plain speaking - it was so refreshing to meet someone who didn't beat around the bush but just came out and said what he meant. He really appreciated that I was the same way.


I get that. Maybe the problem I don't like casual flirting is because I associate it with playing games -- and I'm not big on that. Sometimes if I know a woman extremely well, I don't mind flirting a bit for fun (it's a rare ting, though). But if I see a woman as a prospective partner, I tend to avoid it all together and just try to get close to them by being honest an open.

I've had three serious relationships with women, and I've been lucky that I didn't have to pursue any of them. Two of them the attraction was mutual from the start -- and the other pursued me (it was almost a mild stalking situation). I'd probably suck at having to make the first move.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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08 Jul 2014, 3:47 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Quote:
One thing I do know is how to flirt *in* a relationship. I just don't know how to flirt to *get* into a relationship. (I've had plenty of relationships, so I don't think my M.O. of plain speaking is at all unsuccessful.) My late fiance captured my interest with plain speaking - it was so refreshing to meet someone who didn't beat around the bush but just came out and said what he meant. He really appreciated that I was the same way.


I get that. Maybe the problem I don't like casual flirting is because I associate it with playing games -- and I'm not big on that. Sometimes if I know a woman extremely well, I don't mind flirting a bit for fun (it's a rare ting, though). But if I see a woman as a prospective partner, I tend to avoid it all together and just try to get close to them by being honest an open.

I've had three serious relationships with women, and I've been lucky that I didn't have to pursue any of them. Two of them the attraction was mutual from the start -- and the other pursued me (it was almost a mild stalking situation). I'd probably suck at having to make the first move.


Let me tell you a secret: it's the case of most relationships among Nts too; the more I hear relationship stories there more I am becoming convinced that the male's first move is a myth; it's the woman who often makes the first move, sometimes through signs, the male's first "move" is often done after the woman had made a million move before.