My opinion as to "nice guys finishing last" &

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The issue is that whoever said that women mature faster than men is full of s**t...

This whole "nice guy/jerk" idea never made sense to me. I've seen plenty of guys who are pretty far away from being jerks (further away than, say, me) end up in long-term relationships with attractive women from an early age. I've also seen guys who were complete a**holes end up doing the same, but what helped them was being either really good-looking or charismatic.

I agree somewhat more that charisma may be what helps the most, but if that's the case I can only do so well. Sure I can improve, but if you put me against Mr. How-to-make-friends-and-influence-people (and there are quite a few of those) I'm never going to shape up. It would go far to explain why I've never had much female attention in the past few years, despite improving as a communicator in that time.

I see where you're getting at and your right. Women can't respect guys who kiss their a**. it's that simple. I'm glad I'm not in a relationship because I'd probably be one of those guys.

AutisticMalcontent, have you ever considered the fact that you are not a nice guy?
Maye you act nice just to cover up your fear and insecurity.
It's more likely that you are just another shallow male who's standards are unrealistic.

Maybe some women don't want their asses kissed just to make it an obligation that she go out with this guy who's been so sweet to her. It's possible to be polite or friendly towards eachother without attraction involved.

If they're not romantically interested, then they're not romantically interested and that's their right. Just as a guy who isn't romantically attracted to a girl who shows an interest to him.


As for nice guys and jerks/bad boys...I still don't get it. I've known some very nice men...whatever that means in this forum that're in relationships.

My uncle has always been shy and not the outgoing type and he's now married. I have friend who's married to a seemingly nice guy. I've never heard him yell or call her names. I've also never experienced a jerk vibe around him.

Also, I don't believe half of this nice guy/bad guy anymore..maybe bits and pieces but not in general. Generalizing a gender into only one cluster or two is like saying over half the population of.... It has not been my experience through observation.

There are women who ONLY like bad boys, there are women who ONLY like guys that're respectful, there are women who are ONLY interested in money, there are women that are ONLY attracted to other races, there women that are ONLY interested in old men, there are women that're ONLY interested in boy toys, there are women that're ONLY interested in charismatic men, there women that're ONLY interested in the way dress, there are women that're ONLY interested in sucessful men, there are women that're ONLY interested masculine men, there are women that're ONLY interested in thugs...and so on.

I think attraction is more complex than that as well as dating. I knew one guy who thought I wasn't interested in him because I didn't want to go out with him all the time or be together so much. He even called me a cold hearted b***h which still to this day hurts. He seemed like a nice at the time until eventually his true colors showed. When he had crossed the boundary after pushing knocking me down on the gravel, that was it for me.

Last edited by MissConstrue on 23 Feb 2009, 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

IMO, this boils down to one word: Passion. "Bad boy' types can be seen as really living/loving life. They're go-getters. Whereas a 'nice guy' type may be more passive.

There's a lot more stuff I want to say about this but I can't think of the words.

I know that I definately have learned to appreciate passionate go-getter types lately. I loathe the passive approach to life and I want someone who really has passion and zest for life and women.

a very good point.

I would respectfully disagree, by nature, I am a very nice guy and I'm very accommodating and friendly in person. However, when I'm away from people and by myself, I reflect on the fact that my "kindness" only makes me weak and susceptible to manipulation by others. My insecurity is knowing that being kind and nice is good when everything goes well, but when I'm confronted with something confrontational or foreign, I hide like a scared little kid.

Only in private reflection can I make these rather insensitive observations because I am free from the annoyance of having to be passive and reserved around people due to my incapability of fully expressing myself emotionally and mentally because of this annoyance called P.D.D-NOS. No one here knows me personally, so I have the freedom of expressing myself without fear of recognition.

In truth, to be a nice guy is good as long as people are nice and non manipulative. However people aren't always nice and non manipulative, and that is where the desire to be assertive or aggressive comes from. What is better, knowing you can be assertive or aggressive if need and choosing not be, or having no choice in the matter and always acting calm and passive and feeling foolish afterwards for not responding the way you wanted to?

Shallow? I would be a huge hypocrite if I denied being it, however the truth is that everyone of us are shallow and hypocritical or have been shallow or hypocritical romantically at one point or another, not just me. Many "nice guys" are shallow and hypocritical because they want attractive women to notice and like them, but they will pay no attention to average looking girls who come up to them and want to be romantically involved, I included with them. Many Girls/Young women are hypocritical because they seem to be only interested in guys who are assertive, aggressive, or who have interests that are thrilling, while simultaneously ignoring perfectly nice guys who are friendly, kind, and pleasant, whom they deem "boring and normal". Anyone who said "I'm not a hypocrite!" has lied because somewhere in their life, they have done the thing they have said they'd never do.

This makes more sense to me than women are only attracted to bad boys. It's easier to go out with someone who does the initiating than a guy who doesn't. I assmumed it was mostly a guy thing since it seems most guys do it. I think some women do like a guy who is somewhat dominant since women usually come off passive. I don't know if this is a hormonal thing or a cultural thing or both. Some guys are probably more inclined to make the first move than women. However I've seen it go the other direction. I've known some girls to be very aggressive or dominant when it's come to asking a guy out or trying to get their attention. I use to see a lot of that in my college. I had a friend who would automatically walk up to guys she fancied and make conversation. I don't know how she did it....



Yeah I also think we are attracted to what we're familiar with. I mean if a woman is outgoing and has many interests, she's probably not going to go for a guy who is very much the opposite. This was my experience with my ex. He wanted to go out all the time and I wanted to stay in plus I was never really that zesty or full of spark due to ASD issues. I think for guys, they mostly go for lookers or are more attracted to that aspect than their personality. Then again it depends on each guy and his preference of what attracts him to the type of women he's exclusively interested in.

^ That's not exactly what I was trying to say but since I can't say what I'm trying to say - that's as good as any!

My exact opinion and there seems to be a lot of it here. I guess it is much easier to genralize as well as speculate without having to really go through one experience after another. Some people let a couple of rejections hurt them in a way that makes them reflect it onto themselves and other people.

I'm guilty of it as well.

aww I am last does that mean I am a nice guy

My bad...

Does seemingly make some sense to the "bad boy" attraction.

Not even close....

Oh no don't be sorry.

Let me try to clarify a bit.. It's hard for me to put into words what I mean. I guess my interpretation has a lot to do with.. a guy who knows what he wants out of life and is willing to work to achive it is more attractive than a passive guy who kind of floats along pleasing other people. But it's different than ambition.. because I don't care much for ambition/desire for power. Its related to confidence, passion, zest for life... eg. Does that help at all?? LOL!

^Yes and I'd describe something similar to that but I too have trouble in wording it in such a way that makes sense.