Let's to go to Basics: The Concept of Dating

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i agree with maku on this one. if i have a stimulating conversation with a girl and i find her interesting, attractive, etc. i'll ask her out. i don't wait for feelings to develop because by the time that happens they could have moved on. ideally i would like to follow LPP's method, allowing feelings to develop and then asking them out, but that doesn't work most of the time. there have been two girls who i've nearly started a relationship with in the past but i wasn't confident enough and my self esteem was too low to ask the first one out, and ex-boyfriend issues screwed up the second. the first girl was more along the lines of LPP's method, we went to school together, got to know each other, etc. she liked me but i didn't know and i didn't make my move. the second one was kind of a mix. i knew a girl through rowing but i hadn't really gotten to know her. i asked her out to lunch with some friends of mine, it went well, but she's my roommate's best friend (and future roommate, there's nothing between us now so it should be fine) so i got to see her a bunch more at my place and that's where things developed.

the reason i'd prefer maku's approach is because you don't always get the chance to get to know someone better. sometimes you meet a girl somewhere who seems interesting but your paths aren't likely to cross again, so i get their number and ask them out. dating allows you to see how compatible you two are, since you can't always do it by other means. like someone said, once feelings have developed there isn't much of a point to dating. so if you've known a girl, you think you're compatible, you think she feels the same, you've got some kind of feelings for her, you don't really need many dates to figure things out.

Thank you, LPP - I wanted to be sure that all involved were clear, and I know how much I get peeved when things aren't explained accurately.

CC - Not so much of a job interview; I have found over the years that when the attraction is one-sided that the rate of discord in such attempts was much higher than if my attraction to someone developed in step with them determining if they were attracted to me. I don't place dating on the same pedestal that some others do, and I can accept that... it's just that I find that the process of waiting until you are attached to someone to ask them out generally leads to fewer opportunities, lessened chances to learn from experience, and increases the odds that they will be otherwise involved or disinterested at that point - and again, just my experience talking here.

Toad, I can understand your concern to an extent, but not to the point of paralysis. I'm not advocating asking strangers on the street - though I have done that as well - but that when there is a glimmer of interest to use the process of dating to build a connection instead of preserving it. Let me ask you this - how do you know you have a future with a woman? Is there a secret scratch-off spot like a lottery ticket or a secret handshake? Because otherwise, you're waiting for an assurance that doesn't exist. I'm engaged, and I have to accept that even knowing her for years, being best friends, that she may still hurt me... in fact, I know that we will hurt each other along the way, that's part of being in a relationship. The atrociously low rate is simply my experience; however, what success rate are you having with your existing approach? Please understand, I'm not being rude or aggressive here - I really want to know what the relative effectiveness is, as I keep hearing both discontent with the success rate while still hearing complaints about being single (not referring to you but in general in the forum), and I'd like to better understand the justification.

As for manipulation... that's a tough one. Experience taught me more than anything, and I've been on my fair share of manipulative relationships (and in the interest of fairness, I've been unbearable in a fair share of them as well). However, let me ask you this... did the women have feelings for you, or did you decide whether or not they had genuine feelings for you? Suspicion has a way of undermining all opportunities because it is you choosing how another person feels instead of being open to their feelings. To be honest, and I am not trying to offend, but it appears that you are trying to control all the variables in starting a relationship to avoid having one that falls apart and protect yourself. Personally, the idea of getting into a relationship with someone who had no experience at this stage of my life would be very difficult - all the relationships I have been through have helped me to understand and shape who I am now. Without that, I would worry that they didn't know what they really wanted at this point.


M.

Well.. I can't say that I have ever 'dated' anyone as that seems to imply some semi casual encounters with a relative stranger where you attempt to get to know them and get them into bed.

I am much more of an all-or-nothing person. I cannot see myself going out with someone that I was not extremely interested it. And if they liked me too, then I would consider it a relationship. Dating is thereby unnecessary.

I personally would never ask out a bunch of men hoping that one of the might say yes. IMO that just seems desperate and cheapens the whole idea of having a relationship. If I ever found out that a man had asked a bunch of women before me, I would always wonder if he really liked me or if he just went with the first girl who said yes.

It takes a while for me to develop intense feelings aside from attraction, so I'd have to date them for a while until I got to know them better.

^ That makes sense. Finding out what one really wants from a relationship is, of course, extremely important and if takes dating many women to do that, then I guess I can understand where you are coming from.

One approach will not work for everyone; I respect that you work differently, and have had relationships similar to what you describe... and some of them were absolutely fantastic! Admittedly, some were massive train wrecks as well, so the only option is to keep learning and keep trying. Thanks for the input -


M.

Well, I'll go for the option which appears to have lower standards.

If I felt I was getting on famously with a girl I met for the first time, or the first time in a very long time, and I thought she was at least kind of cute, I'd ask her for her number. It doesn't even have to amount to a "date" (though it can), I could make an excuse for it pretty easily (like "would you like to talk about this later?" or attend an event if we have a shared interest) and who knows maybe my own interest may waver. These kinds of meetings have been rare (it's only ever happened to me a few times) but such is life.

It doesn't mean I'm desperate because I'm not necessarily committing myself to pursing a relationship with such a person. Similarly, if a girl seems interested in me it doesn't necessarily mean she clearly wants to have a relationship with me. I'd be suspicious if a girl I didn't know suddenly showed very overt sexual or romantic interest, and I think understandably so.

Obviously, if for a guy, 1 out of 10 women he randomly meets are fairly compatible, it's a very different situation than for someone for whom 1 out of 1000 are fairly compatible. Likewise, it's going to be different for a guy who gets rejected 9 out of 10 times than for one who gets rejected 999 times out of 1000. It's horses for courses - random dating is sensible if you're compatible with many people and it will get you results; if you're compatible with almost no one, it might only give you an infinitesimal chance of finding someone and the virtual certainty of massive frustration, humiliation and resentment at a significant cost in money, effort and time (and maybe a stomach ulcer for good measure). Some will decide that even that infinitesimal chance is worth all that; other will decide that life is too short to go through all that with such a remote prospect of getting anything out of it. In either case, it's not the same as for someone who can easily find someone reasonably compatible that will readily say yes.

Interesting results thus far; much different than I anticipated.


M.

Er damn this is a touchy subject. I've only genuinely asked out 1 girl before and I've been painfully turned down with the 'not interested' and I was trying to hit it off with another girl form school I was fond of but things haven't been working out so I don't think I'll be asking her out any time soon.

I agree with LePetitPrince on that concept of dating. If I have some feelings or interest and I want to test things to see where they will lead then I will ask her out. Even if it was just for a short 'trial period'