[Males only please] Would you marry a feminist?

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so basically i am perceived as irrational and an extreme feminist by everyone because i am participating in this conversation--is that what you're saying? or is that just your own personal perception of me for participating in this thread? or am i one of the dumb ones lowering your IQ with my illogical arguments?

I suggest those who will argue, in the upcoming poll, the term "feminism" is clear, unambiguous, and useful start a thread in the women's forum to compose your position. Again, I will be glad to coordinate with you so you can post it as soon a the poll is posted.

Is this discussion (the way it turned out anyway) likely to fuel hatred? We might differ on opinions and gender here but I don't feel like we're arguing? I've actually quite enjoyed reading some of the posts here from people of either sex, and I've even learned some new words to add to my vocabulary. (show offs)

I don't think that the OP wanted a reasonably thoughtful discussion about prejudice or gender politics either. Sucks to be him. Let the thread continue as a monument to narrow-minded misogyny.

Just to be a pedantic little bugger, if WP existed 50 / 60 years ago there might be a 'poll [Allies Only]: Would you marry a Kraut?' thread. I know this is simplistic thinking and as silly as the idea is you can guarantee the thread would have descended into hatred and bashing of all things Germanic. The fact that these preconceptions exist in the first place suggest that there is a problem that needs dealing with. I can think of less mature ways of confronting prejudice.

Apologies if I have offended you personally, or if the subject annoys you. I think the simple fact that we're sat here bashing our keyboards at each other and disagreeing is indicative of there being a problem, somewhere. It gets discussed, or it gets swept under the carpet allowing tempers and prejudice to simmer.

Disclaimer: I don't claim to be enlightened, I'm far too young. Feminism as a movement is older than I am, and it sounds preposterous to me that certain rights have only very recently been granted to women. The very idea of feminism to me as a male born in the 80s seems like an unnecessary throwback to a bygone time. Again, apologies if that offends anyone, but I wouldn't be surprised if other men of a similar age felt the same way.

Eh, I don't think it's quite as simple as a binary distinction between equality feminists and largely imaginary man hating feminists, but there certainly is a subset of feminism with whom you can't politely disagree, even on finer points, lest you be accused of perpetuating "the patriarchy" and/or "rape culture", amongst other accusations, which makes them difficult to engage with. The jargon doesn't help in that regard, and is usually a pretty good indicator of what type of feminist you've encountered.

I think it's simplistic and dishonest to assume that anyone leery of feminists until they discern what type they are is motivated by misogyny or other prejudice, as feminists are not a homogenous bloc, and many if not most people have similar cautions towards anyone who introduces themselves with a political label, e.g. someone introducing themselves as conservative may be a religious social conservative who might object to ones lifestyle, or they may be an economic conservative who cares only about government efficiency.

as a female born just before the 80s (exactly 4 months before them, actually), feminism was something i knew was necessary from a very young age--probably around the same age that many of my relatives insisted on continuing to buy me dolls as gifts no matter how many times i explained to them, as politely as i knew how at the time, that i had absolutely no interest in playing with dolls and would much prefer hotwheels, transformers, he-man action figures, or lego. this is how different life experience can inform us, and why it is necessary to take into account that one's own experience may not be the same as others when it comes to issues like sexism. many men have trouble grasping this principle--they don't see many instances directly in their own lives, so they assume sexism no longer exists. listen to women speak of their own experiences with sexism and you will see it is still pervasive in our culture. it is certainly not preposterous to those of us who still can't walk down the street on a busy day without being sexually harassed.

Which is why I think this thread should be kept open. I have never (in my life) been the victim of any kind of discrimination that I've been aware of, sexual or otherwise. You might not like it but I at least hope you can appreciate that my perceived ignorance or lack of empathy is not rooted in malice towards women. (ASD might explain a certain lack of empathy also, especially here)

I'm clearly guilty of wishful thinking and assuming sexism no longer exists, much like I'm sometimes guilty of assuming that racism no longer exists. These are nice fantasies to have, and quite easy to maintain when you're neither victim or antagonist.

Aside from my earlier crap jokes I was actually trying to demonstrate that not all men are stupid bigots, just like yourself and others were trying to impress that not all feminists are misandrist hags. I'm starting to think perhaps that I at least am not doing a very good job.

i wouldn't say that--i have appreciated your contributions to this thread, and you don't strike me as malicious or bigoted. i was just trying to make a point about how different life experiences can result in different perceptions of reality that aren't always accurate when applied to others outside our own personal experience. not all bias is intentional--in fact, i believe most of it (and not just in regards to the issue of sexism) is the result of ignorance and oversight rather than maliciousness.

Maybe off-topic, but do you think it's even possible to have true gender equality in such an irrational world? Not that I support maintaining the status quo simply for my own comfort.

Maybe over-simplified, but these are the only three options 'we' have. As I see it from my limited FOV, anyway.

Patriarchal society: run by men for the benefit of men, to the detriment of women.

Matriarchal society: as above but vice versa

(assumes men and women are equally crap at understanding the other sex)

Equal society: nightmare for everyone. I don't know about you but I struggle to agree with the opposite sex regarding simple things like what to watch on TV or pizza toppings. Global politics would be a disaster!

We might never get it right. How many thousands of years have we been pretending to be civilised so far? No joy thus far, though I'm pleased to note things appear to be improving, albeit at a glacial pace.

i think i would rather answer the question "do i think it's possible to have true human equality?"

someday, yes. it is not my brain that informs me of this--it is a (perhaps irrational) impulse from my heart, but i trust it nonetheless.

conversely, i have typically found it easier to befriend and understand my male peers than my female ones. all humans baffle me, generally speaking, but men usually slightly less so somehow than women (there have been exceptions).

Could the greater affinity with men be something to do with how Asperger's is expressed in women in general? The women I know who are either diagnosed or who I strongly suspect to have Asperger's are all the same, chilled with the blokes, and not too fond of female company.

I think we need another silly poll...

No, i meant that this "conversation" is pointless, because it is likely that most people, not all, have different agendas/motivations and are not up for logic. I did not say anything about you specifically, yet you picked out that only thing out of my whole argument, ignoring my message. Your arguments are logical. I was talking about general tone of the "discussion". Do you seriously feel that your statements are being treated fairly and given a proper consideration? Do you seriously feel that you are able to discuss "feminism" in this thread? What I meant is that usually these sort of "discussions" are not discussions at all.

Yeah, because love and dating is exclusively reserved for men.

If you feel this uncontrollable urge to make up stuff, just open a dictionary. Any dictionary - politics, english, international words, anything you like.

This poll itself is highly sexist, insensitive and insulting. I demand that you refrain from posting these things or move to the PPR.

Yes, well, I feel very offended by this thread and ignorance shown by some of the participants. A lot of them spoken wisely and it very interesting and informative to read, however, this thread was composed very unintelligently and I am still unclear what was its purpose other that women-hating.

I wonder if I posted a poll "would you marry a short guy", how would that translate.


Thanks for that, I appreciate it. Now that is a well posed problem which I would be very interested to discuss about, I always suspected that was the case, that younger people do not feel that feminism is *necessary* or know why do we need it now, when "we are all equal anyway" and I can certainly see how it can annoy people, especially men and I recognize they are being treated in some instances increasingly unfairly. Why is it that I feel different on the topic? I suppose this is a victory of some sorts, that feminism is perceived this way. On the other hand, this is a thin line between misogyny and "anti-feminism", and misogyny is deep rooted in our society and it will take at leas a few more generations to change.

The reason I suggested it be done in the women's section is that discussion would not be properly placed in this forum and so the greatest number of women can notice it and be involved. That actual poll will probably take place in the Random Discussion section. I'm not trying to blind-side anyone, I would like well-thought presentations. And, I'm really putting the poll together.

I strongly suggest you make it in the PPR. Certainly ton women's section, because that area is reserved mostly for women and they want to feel safe and respected, at least in one subforum. Women in general will not want to be involved in such sexist matters, trust my word. If you are going to discuss feminism, there is no other place for that discussion other than in PPR. You want attention and that's fine, but I am going to write a plea to mods if that poll is going to have similar connotations as this one.

Personally, I think he's attracted to you. It's like a 13 year old's crush, he's not sure how to interact with non-anime women so he sexually harasses them and think that's the same as flirtation. It's not so much sexism as it is extreme immaturity.