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The UCSB shooter--an Aspie with a rant against women

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TheGoggles
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26 May 2014, 10:45 am

Jono wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
From the articles and analysises I read on this case, along with people's comments, no one is really saying he did that because of his AS, but that such bitter and hate talk is common on the internet.
There's no anti AS agenda.


AS would of had nothing to do with it, unless he also had some kind of personality disorder. There has never been shown to be a correlation between AS and violence like this.


Extreme social isolation can be very psychologically destructive, however. And anyone who spends five minutes here knows that there are a lot of people with no social outlet of any kind other than the internet.



cannotthinkoff
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26 May 2014, 11:08 am

meh, i kind of understand him. wonder what that says about me



aerithius
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26 May 2014, 11:13 am

cannotthinkoff wrote:
meh, i kind of understand him. wonder what that says about me


Did you read his manifesto? If you had, you would not have made your comment. He came from a middle class, broken family. His family had financial ups and downs along the middle class spectrum. He had Asperger's Syndrome, a main manifestation of which is difficulty socializing normally. That led to his being relentlessly and cruelly bullied throughout his life. He was not able to graduate from a regular school, complete a fully-scheduled year of college, let alone hold down any job. These things happen because troubled kids are relentlessly bullied and teased, while the bullies' parents click into the internet and become cyber bullies, an activity that has more than once caused immeasurable harm.

Defensive violence is the only means of justifiable violence by law, killing an unarmed person for the sheer job is absolutely abhorrent and depraved of humanity. By aiming at the monsters who bullied him, he became a much more worse monster, two wrongs don't fix a right. It is even worse that he attacked unarmed civilians that had no chance of putting up a fight, he was a very twisted person with a distorted perspective and a coward...



TheGoggles
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26 May 2014, 11:54 am

aerithius wrote:
cannotthinkoff wrote:
meh, i kind of understand him. wonder what that says about me


Did you read his manifesto? If you had, you would not have made your comment. He came from a middle class, broken family. His family had financial ups and downs along the middle class spectrum. He had Asperger's Syndrome, a main manifestation of which is difficulty socializing normally. That led to his being relentlessly and cruelly bullied throughout his life. He was not able to graduate from a regular school, complete a fully-scheduled year of college, let alone hold down any job. These things happen because troubled kids are relentlessly bullied and teased, while the bullies' parents click into the internet and become cyber bullies, an activity that has more than once caused immeasurable harm.

Defensive violence is the only means of justifiable violence by law, killing an unarmed person for the sheer job is absolutely abhorrent and depraved of humanity. By aiming at the monsters who bullied him, he became a much more worse monster, two wrongs don't fix a right. It is even worse that he attacked unarmed civilians that had no chance of putting up a fight, he was a very twisted person with a distorted perspective and a coward...


I don't doubt that he got bullied in grade school, but I can't help but notice that when he got his ass kicked as an adult it was immediately after assaulting a stranger.



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26 May 2014, 2:16 pm

Hopper wrote:
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I'm a bit disconcerted that while there are a number of posters who are absolutely terrified that this guy's crime and AS diagnosis are going to lead to stereotypes and persecution, there's a whole other group of posters positively gleefully pointing out any similarities they can find between this guy and posters on this board in order to push an agenda.


What agenda?

I've been quick to point out similarities, that there's a lot in his attitude that would fit in here, as well as elsewhere - the point being that his ideas and attitudes are very far from unusual, though the extremity of them surely is.

There's a difference between 'he was this way because of AS' and 'he held entitled, misogynistic views that can be found amongst many men, including here'.

I would suggest worrying less about those pointing about similarities, and more about the similarities themselves.


I haven't read the full thread, but some thoughts I've had coming into the thread that might apply to this aspect of the discussion:

1. There are going to be many people who will overly-generalize that ASD is the problem and either leads to mass shootings or is a type of mental illness. That is a simple fact. Too many people prefer to make simplistic scape-goat generalizations and not think. Fortunately, in my experience, they are not the majority. So, while the fear is real, it should not prevent anyone from having a valid, nuanced discussion.

2. The guy's rants did sound familiar to me. I've encountered the general, underlying attitude before, on this board (thankfully not very often), which is why I was curious to open this board after following the news. The problem starts with framing relationships as "mating" and "species procreation," making it sound like being loved is an inevitable right, rather than understanding relationships are founded and grown by what you GIVE to another person, in the way of emotional support or whatever it is they uniquely need, not what they give to you. The twist in mindset can be very difficult to change.


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Jono
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26 May 2014, 3:15 pm

TheGoggles wrote:
Jono wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
From the articles and analysises I read on this case, along with people's comments, no one is really saying he did that because of his AS, but that such bitter and hate talk is common on the internet.
There's no anti AS agenda.


AS would of had nothing to do with it, unless he also had some kind of personality disorder. There has never been shown to be a correlation between AS and violence like this.


Extreme social isolation can be very psychologically destructive, however. And anyone who spends five minutes here knows that there are a lot of people with no social outlet of any kind other than the internet.


Yes, that would be me included, though I'm probably not as isolated as some other people here.



Jono
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26 May 2014, 3:19 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
2. The guy's rants did sound familiar to me. I've encountered the general, underlying attitude before, on this board (thankfully not very often), which is why I was curious to open this board after following the news. The problem starts with framing relationships as "mating" and "species procreation," making it sound like being loved is an inevitable right, rather than understanding relationships are founded and grown by what you GIVE to another person, in the way of emotional support or whatever it is they uniquely need, not what they give to you. The twist in mindset can be very difficult to change.


True, though lot's of people here haven't even had a chance to show what they could offer to others. Also, they may have emotional needs as well. That doesn't mean that they would go on a killing spree though.



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26 May 2014, 3:52 pm

The murder spree's against women is picking up or so it seems, this means there is likely some kind of social imbalance between the sexes because some males are starting to get to frustrated. I suggest we drop this employer -v- the unemployed attitudes and woman start taking those chances of rejection by hitting on the men their attracted too instead of letting men take all those chances and dealing with so much rejection. stop calling women whom take that stance sluts and men whom women find unattractive creeps. this is the 21st century we need to do away with those old stile traditions. let women start wooing the men for a change. I know my ego would love it if some women started hitting on me for a change instead of me dealing with so much rejection.


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26 May 2014, 4:12 pm

Jono wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
2. The guy's rants did sound familiar to me. I've encountered the general, underlying attitude before, on this board (thankfully not very often), which is why I was curious to open this board after following the news. The problem starts with framing relationships as "mating" and "species procreation," making it sound like being loved is an inevitable right, rather than understanding relationships are founded and grown by what you GIVE to another person, in the way of emotional support or whatever it is they uniquely need, not what they give to you. The twist in mindset can be very difficult to change.


True, though lot's of people here haven't even had a chance to show what they could offer to others. Also, they may have emotional needs as well. That doesn't mean that they would go on a killing spree though.


I learned something from a guy I once dated, shortly before I met my husband: we project our thoughts on dating to those who pass by who might have been interested in us. He told me that he had found making contact with me difficult, and if I would present more openly I would have more opportunities to make connections. Then he showed me some simply examples of how I walk and sit. He really had a point.

I can tell a negative, self-absorbed guy within a few sentences of a conversation. It never took more to make me want to run. The shooter was not unattractive, it couldn't have been his looks. It must have been something he projected.

My son despite being a quirky, socially awkward Aspie has had girls interested in him, to the point where so far he hasn't had to actually ask anyone out to have a dating "life;" girls ask him out (and sometimes the giant drama social circle pushes people together). So just being quirky and stupid about dating (which he most definitely is) aren't enough to create a complete shut out, either.

Obviously not getting dates is no excuse to go on a rampage and shoot people. But if someone does want dates, I think it is worth looking at what they think and feel and, thus, what they unknowingly project.


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26 May 2014, 4:15 pm

AspergianMutantt wrote:
The murder spree's against women is picking up or so it seems, this means there is likely some kind of social imbalance between the sexes because some males are starting to get to frustrated. I suggest we drop this employer -v- the unemployed attitudes and woman start taking those chances of rejection by hitting on the men their attracted too instead of letting men take all those chances and dealing with so much rejection. stop calling women whom take that stance sluts and men whom women find unattractive creeps. this is the 21st century we need to do away with those old stile traditions. let women start wooing the men for a change. I know my ego would love it if some women started hitting on me for a change instead of me dealing with so much rejection.


I don't know any women, young or old, who are afraid to let men they're attracted to know about it -- I think it's a bit of a fantasy to believe that women are all (or even mostly) operating by some antique code that says we're not allowed to tell men we like them, or invite them out. It is possible that some men sometimes aren't picking up on the "she likes you" signals, just as some men will wildly overinterpret "she looked at me" into "she wants me", but women are often quite direct: I think you're really cute, would you like to come to a movie with me, me and my friends are going to the ____ and I wondered if you wanted to come along, etc. There are also plenty of matchmaker types who'll let a fella know: She likes you, ask her out!

And of course women get rejected. This is another fantasy, the idea that women get whatever they want while men suffer. Women get turned down, used for sex and rejected, married and cheated on, divorced -- I mean we're people too, this happens. I'm trying to think of all the men I've asked out, and I've long since lost track, but sure, some refuse, and some are thrilled. Just like women, I suppose.

Murder sprees happen because the men (and yep, it appears always to be men) have some sick ideas and easy access to guns. I'm a fan of doing something about both.



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26 May 2014, 4:19 pm

AspergianMutantt wrote:
The murder spree's against women is picking up or so it seems, this means there is likely some kind of social imbalance between the sexes because some males are starting to get to frustrated. I suggest we drop this employer -v- the unemployed attitudes and woman start taking those chances of rejection by hitting on the men their attracted too instead of letting men take all those chances and dealing with so much rejection. stop calling women whom take that stance sluts and men whom women find unattractive creeps. this is the 21st century we need to do away with those old stile traditions. let women start wooing the men for a change. I know my ego would love it if some women started hitting on me for a change instead of me dealing with so much rejection.


Unfortunately, men hating women, and killing them for it, is nothing new. It suggests 'social imbalance', but not the one you have in mind.

The woman makes me want to have sex with her. She won't let me have sex with her. Whore.

But yes, women wooing men will sort it all out. That was the problem with Rodger. The women were too scared of being called sluts to try and woo him.

And there won't be any sort of problem when the men who can't get dates now still can't get dates in the future despite it being socially easier for them to do so.

Do you even listen to yourself?


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26 May 2014, 4:21 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Jono wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
2. The guy's rants did sound familiar to me. I've encountered the general, underlying attitude before, on this board (thankfully not very often), which is why I was curious to open this board after following the news. The problem starts with framing relationships as "mating" and "species procreation," making it sound like being loved is an inevitable right, rather than understanding relationships are founded and grown by what you GIVE to another person, in the way of emotional support or whatever it is they uniquely need, not what they give to you. The twist in mindset can be very difficult to change.


True, though lot's of people here haven't even had a chance to show what they could offer to others. Also, they may have emotional needs as well. That doesn't mean that they would go on a killing spree though.


I learned something from a guy I once dated, shortly before I met my husband: we project our thoughts on dating to those who pass by who might have been interested in us. He told me that he had found making contact with me difficult, and if I would present more openly I would have more opportunities to make connections. Then he showed me some simply examples of how I walk and sit. He really had a point.


:lol: An old boyfriend once told me that guys like talking to me because I look like I like sex. Not under my control, fellas.

Quote:
I can tell a negative, self-absorbed guy within a few sentences of a conversation. It never took more to make me want to run. The shooter was not unattractive, it couldn't have been his looks. It must have been something he projected.


Oh, no joke. You want to stay away from those guys who're just always down and full of blame for other people about their lives. I've ignored that a few times and it turned out to've been a big mistake every time.

My guess is this guy projected "volcanically angry, ill, and potentially lethal". I've no doubt he also said weird, unsettling things to people.



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26 May 2014, 4:26 pm

AspergianMutantt wrote:
The murder spree's against women is picking up or so it seems, this means there is likely some kind of social imbalance between the sexes because some males are starting to get to frustrated. I suggest we drop this employer -v- the unemployed attitudes and woman start taking those chances of rejection by hitting on the men their attracted too instead of letting men take all those chances and dealing with so much rejection. stop calling women whom take that stance sluts and men whom women find unattractive creeps. this is the 21st century we need to do away with those old stile traditions. let women start wooing the men for a change. I know my ego would love it if some women started hitting on me for a change instead of me dealing with so much rejection.


Well, they do, apparently. As I just posted, my son has had a couple of relationships and both times the girl asked him out first. I think one of the things people like about him is that he isn't afraid to be himself, even when he is aware of just how weird he is being. He just owns it, but also has learned how to avoid hurting others in the process (which works imperfectly but .... )

I love the way I'm seeing groups of local teens handle the whole dating thing: as groups. It is socially OK to go to dances with friends and just hang out with friends. Kids are dating friends of friends based on friends recommendations. It is all much more organic and casual. Obviously, you do have to have a social circle, but in my son's school quirky kids like him pretty much find a social home in one group or another; the social culture tries not to shut anyone out (although that is imperfect, I truly am not aware of anyone who isn't being accepted somewhere). I've chaperoned field trips and events and watched and seen. I know it will never be easy or perfect, and I know there are still struggles and insecurities and unmet wants and needs. But getting more relaxed and less formal about it all is a good place to start, as is assuming sex will wait (that whole area puts pressure in young relationships that really is negative and destructive, and I like seeing kids recognize that).


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26 May 2014, 4:31 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
Murder sprees happen because the men (and yep, it appears always to be men) have some sick ideas and easy access to guns. I'm a fan of doing something about both.


It sounded to me like this young man's mind was 100% about sex. And he assumed that every happy couple was having sex, which in college absolutely is NOT true (even if it is, statistically, often true). Few women are willing to be seen as nothing more than "who they give it to." Get a doll for that, not a human being.


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26 May 2014, 4:33 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
:lol: An old boyfriend once told me that guys like talking to me because I look like I like sex. Not under my control, fellas.


how does a woman "look like they like sex"--did he explain? that peaked my curiosity. :lol:



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26 May 2014, 4:35 pm

Oh good, another guy who just shot at women because he figured someone was supposed to give him lovin', and those slu*ty woman-critters wouldn't oblige:

http://jezebel.com/stockton-man-reporte ... 1581764253