The value of men

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Maybe she's really lonely

She has a point though when she she says on that even most poor men get married.

One thing that she's not getting though: The 'poor' working class men (Let's take for example professions like taxi/truck drivers, Construction workers, blue-collar workers...you know, and everything manual labor) are usually part of very group-oriented communities, often rural/outskirt, ghettos and religious communities.
Dating is different for those, once a man or woman hits a certain age, their families make them meet others through matching-making and arranged set ups; that's why we so rarely see them ending up single for life.

My barber's two sons (who are barbers too) both got married in this way for example, and to women who work in the hair/makeup industry too.

The "Middle-Class" people have it differently, their family is way less involved in dating and they are more likely to go for the conventional dating (like asking out acquaintances, online dating, or even asking out girls they meet in social events or through friends....etc).

When a Middle-Class man gets a financial drawback to the level of a working-class, he loses more dating value than a working-class man: He doesn't live in an environment where he meets women of the working-class and women of the Middle-Class would see him as a much less attractive option, he would also be more harshly judged as unsuccessful as well, and he has no family/community support when it comes to dating; he is pretty much on his own.

I've never seen this and trust me, if my mom could arrange a date for me, she would. Although, it could be that I'm so undesirable that even set up dates don't work for me. Well, at least in this case I'm not the one being rejected.

And Boo, do you agree that the most important thing that keeps forever alones forever alone is money?

And he'll still be looked down upon by working-class people as a posh, spoiled pansy, so he won't get any respect. Women won't like him without the only asset he could have, i.e., money, and men will kill him if he approaches a woman from their family or social environment.

Interesting point.

Never thought of that.

Kinda makes sense. The wealthier the person is the more important money is for him/her and the more he/she values income when evaluating other people. KayteeKay is well off and she values that in her partners.

And not only that, Working-class men even tend to get married at younger age: It is true that they make less money, but they tend to start making money earlier; they also tend to mature life-skills wise earlier.

As for Kaytekat who I think she's tarantella64 has claimed before (as tarantella) to have dated millionnaires and president candidates before; how life turned upside down to her and ended up here on WP arguing with sly and other guys is pretty much of a puzzling mystery to me.

Lol family of working class people arranges dates for them? Where the hell do you guys live, in India? That is so untrue in my experience, and my dad works in a factory.

Stereotype people and communities much?

Plumbers, electricians, masons, welders and construction workers make good money. I recently had to do ponitework on my house and had to pay a crew of masons almost $5000 for less than three days work. I hired the mason because I noticed the lovely brickwork on his house, three blocks from mine, and asked him who his contractor was. The neighborhood isn't a ghetto.




This assumes a working class man will allow his relatives to dictate his social life and that a middle class man wouldn't ask his relatives if they knew any single girls. It also assumes that girls in the community are continually willing to be introduced to single men by their families. It assumes that no one's reputation precedes them, particularly if you're arguing the working class communities are more or less self-contained. Behave irregularly enough as to scare two or three girls or guys and, well, see what happens.

And that middle class families don't continually try to set their offspring off with other people's offspring.

That's a lot of assumptions. It also removes geography, culture and free will from the dating equation.




You are assuming a financial drawback is permanent. In most cases, a person with a degree who is fired or laid off has transferable skills and is very likely to find an equally well-paid new job. That there's no emergency fund or Plan B. Unless he simultaneously experiences some other financial catastrophe, he will remain in the middle class. The current unemployment rate for men with at least a four-year degree is less than 4% versus 18% for high school grads versus 24% for no high school diploma.

All that's aside from the fact that "middle class" and "working class" aren't exclusively defined by the amount of money a man (or woman) makes.



That's pure speculation. That's assuming the income drop is permanent, that working class and middle class people always live in different neighborhoods, that all working-class men live near their families and that nearby working-class families have an endless stream of single girls to introduce them to.

What's very interesting is that there's now, effectively, a two-track system when it comes to marriage: for the college-educated who tend to marry later, have kids after marrying and who rarely divorce. The other track is everybody else -- who don't marry, marry earlier and divorce more often. there are very few "mixed income" marriages too.

Ok fine. Points taken, relax it's all just speculation, maybe what I observe isn't the same everywhere.
I am not killing anyone with my theories.

Do you have a boyfriend? I am really curious.

Yes. Two years. We met when the agency I used to work for hired his environmental consulting firm to get a second opinion on a couple of bids.

Also, my upper middle class granny has been setting me up with the grandsons of her friends since I was 17. Telling her not to and introducing her to my boyfriends does not dampen her enthusiasm. My granny and her friends matchmaking efforts likely put the efforts of grannies in any other socio-economic group to shame.

Lucky them. Why didn't my family try anything like that? They knew I was struggling in that area and yet they were indifferent. The psychiatrist on Youtube said if your son can't get a date when he's a teenager it your responsibility as parent to help him. They didn't help me much academically either and yes, that does make a difference. I'm sick of my parents and their apathy. Am I too old to put myself up for adoption?

Although, when I think of the place where my parents and many of my other relatives met, it was at church. Was my mistake removing myself from that environment where there were girls my own age? Should I have pretended to believe in God for that reason? Or maybe I would've been too shy to ask them out anyway. Back then I thought girls were scary. Now I know that girls like guys as much as guys like girls. They're not looking for an excuse to bite my head off. Even if they're not interested, more often then not they let me down gently (which leads to further confusion and ambiguity but it's nice of them to try).Wait, so you mean he'll be shunned by middle class people because they'll think of him as working class and he'll be rejected by working class people because they'll think of him as middle class. Ouch, that's rough.Yes it does and that makes me so mad. Not because I can't get a job that pays above minimum wage but because it used to be that one parent could raise the kids and one could earn enough to support the whole family.

if both work 9-5 (or more) and try to cram their other responsibilities into the evening it will lead to two exhausted parents. It will probably also lead to the kids living on a fast food diet (after all, not everyone can afford to live 5 minutes away from the CBD and cooking takes time). But worst of all is that I believe that it's harmful to the kids. It's bad enough if they only get to see one parent for minutes per day but if it's both parents it's disaster.

It's very harmful for kids to spend hours in before-school care and hours in after-school care. If the parents work 9-5 and have an hour commute that means the kids are in an institution for 10 hours per day, 8-5. Even though only half of that is class time the kids still get exhausted (especially if they're introverted, they get no time to themselves, how would you like to spend 10 hours per day surrounded by dozens of of your screaming peers? Many people can only unwind when they're alone). Anyway, I think the 9-5 work day might one day be a thing of the past. More and more jobs are 9-9 or 9-11 and weekends too.

But it used to be that you could raise a family in middle-class comfort with only one salary. How did we get to the point of needing two? I think it's fine that women have broken through the glass ceiling but if leads to both parties in a couple working all day and doing house-work all night, it will just lead to less leisure time for both of them and worse yet, harm their kids.

Studies have shown that kids who don't get to spend much time with their parents learn slower than their peers and are more prone to misbehavior. Also studies have shown that when kids get help with their studies from their parents, they get higher grades and have a much higher chance of getting into college (especially if the parents are well-educated themselves). Can't find the links but these ones hint at it.
http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/after-school-clubs-long-hours/
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/is-extending-the-school-day-a-good-idea-we-asked-the-experts-9104070.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg-GEzM7iTk&feature=youtu.be

Kids don't thrive when they're raised by a facility. There's a reason why we don't emulate the Khmer Rouge and their collective childcare. It doesn't work. So can someone answer my question. Why is it that nowadays it takes two salaries to raise a family when formally it only took one?

Ok fine, so you have all things settled..... then why are you so insisting to argue some guys here to the point of creating new accounts all the time? What does that benefit you?

that doesnt' happen in westren nations.

or that you're mess up thier relationship with the girl they set you up with.