Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

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Some of the views on here are just unreal. As an aspie guy it's almost always going to be tough to find a girl in the first place but thinking like this is a guarenteed way of having even less success. Girls can tell when aspie guy hates them simple as that, we're really bad at hiding it and they're good at detecting it.

The hate on this board is intense, some serious psychological shenanigans going on. You do realise people are watching?

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." - Neitsche

One of my favorite quotes!

Better than this one:

"The suffering are one and all dreadfully eager and inventive in discovering occasions for painful affects; they enjoy being mistrustful and dwelling on nasty deeds and imaginary slights; they scour the entrails of their past and present for obscure and questionable occurences that offer them the opportunity to revel in tormenting suspicions and to intoxicate themselves with the poison of their own malice: they tear open their oldest wounds, they bleed from long-healed scars, they make evildoers out of their friends, wives, children, and whoever else stands closest to them." -Nietzsche

Or this one:

"To demand of strength that it should not express itself as strength, that it should not be ... a thirst for enemies ... is just as absurd as to demand of weakness that it should express itself as strength." -Nietzsche

Or this one:

"Without cruelty there is no festival: thus the longest and most ancient part of human history teaches -- and in punishment there is so much that is festive!" -Nietzsche

Again I say, while I haven't come to a definite conclusion about Nietzsche's philosophy, I think we should still be careful while reading him.

That's actually a pretty good one, and an almost textbook description of rejection-sensitive individuals (and some other neuroses).

Some of Nietsche's stuff was corrupted after his death by his sister, so I think there is where you need to be careful about what was his, and what was his redneck sister's contribution.

It appears to use a motive-shifting device. If you push a man, the man 'enjoys falling,' he might say. If you insult a man, he 'enjoys being insulted.' You can take this device to obnoxious extremes for men and women of all ages.

I, for one, have suffered. And I don't believe that I'm "dreadfully eager and inventive in discovering occasions for painful affects." I've simply discovered them, time after time after time. Does that mean I enjoy it? I'm pretty much looking to get out of it.

I'm not sure where Nietzsche gets all his praise on these boards.

On the subject of nice guys and in particular of sickness, here's another quote:

"What a display of grand words and postures, what an art of 'honest' calumny! These failures: what noble eloquence flows from their lips! How much sugary, slimy, humble submissiveness swims in their eyes! What do they really want? At least to represent justice, love, wisdom, superiority -- that is the ambition of the 'lowest,' the sick."

He continues:

"And how skillful such an ambition makes them! Admire above all the forger's skill with which the stamp of virtue, even the ring, the golden-sounding ring of virtue, is here counterfeited. They monopolize virtue, these weak, hopelessly sick people..." -Nietzsche

Notice he says 'counterfeited.' Why? What is counterfeit about the virtues of those who overcome their sickness? Of people like me, who have woken up almost every morning hearing voices and yet serve their community anyway?

Nietzsche is describing an attitude of hostility of the sick toward the healthy. But such an attitude does not necessarily result from sickness alone: it may arise from the way the sick are treated by the healthy, even if only in being forced to stay alive. If you found some of us repulsive or undesirable, why wouldn't you let us simply euthanize ourselves? Would it matter that much to you that 'ugly people' be kept alive in torment? They're out there, you know...

Later, Nietzsche continues:

"That the sick should not make the healthy sick ... should surely be our supreme concern on Earth; but this requires above all that the healthy should be segregated from the sick, guarded even from the sight of the sick, that they may not confound themselves with the sick."

Segregated. Nietzsche sounds like he wants to roll everyone with illnesses in a giant cart to be trapped and isolated from all the beautiful people they admire. We can only wonder what he wanted to do to them in there.

Nurse them? Of course not. Nietzsche begins the next section:

"If one has grasped in all its profundity -- and I insist that precisely this matter requires profound apprehension and comprehension -- how it cannot be the task of the healthy to nurse the sick and to make them well..."

So, let's get two things straight about Nietzsche:

1. He wanted the sick to be segregated from the healthy.
2. He did not want the sick to be nursed by the healthy.

In giving this philosopher open-minded consideration (at least with limited information about him, not having read all his books to be able to make more detailed inferences), we may freely wonder what the sick might be let to encounter after 'segregation'... but I hope that out of the kindness of your hearts you would consider that they, like you, were conscious beings.

I really wonder how much of the above wasn't really Nietzsche, but instead his sister perverting his works, especially the segregation part. Someone with more knowledge on Nietzsche (maybe you) can chime in on that point.

There is some truth in there in what he says. There are certainly a lot of people, including some here on the boards, who do revel in their misery. At times, I am one of them too, in my private life, which is why it hits home. Sometimes it does just feel good to be depressed, to be the martyr, to have an easy excuse for why you can't do anything.

There are also those who get a monopoly on virtue as a byproduct of their condition.

Did anyone else here ever watch the third season of MTV's the "Real World" back in the early 90s, when they were all in San Francisco? Pedro, the guy with full-blown AIDS, was doing this "monopoly on virtue" thing for sure. He was so self-important and so morally untouchable that he was able to railroad someone he didn't like out of the house -- Puck. Was Puck obnoxious? Sure, but not any more than other people in preceding seasons. In the battle of wills, Pedro wrapped himself in his disease and his activism, and basically made himself out to be a better person than Puck. Was he? Probably not, and he certainly was as rude in his own way as Puck was.

Last edited by billsmithglendale on 19 Jun 2009, 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I just happen to relate to that particular quote of Neitsche's....that doesn't particularly make me a Neitsche fan. IMO science and tangible evidence is the true genius. It is far plausible than conjectures and bias assumptions humans seem to give toward eachother.


I will agree that yeah most of the aristocratic men of philosophy have always been idolized and given more credit than where it's rightfully due. It's ashame other people who have also made great contributions to ideas and changes in our world don't get that kind of idolization or even noticed. IMO, if one is willing to challenge ideas, it going to take a mind that is willing to challenge his own ideals and beliefs.

To sum this up, I find flaws in both men and women..doesn't necessarily make them dumb. In fact I find irony in both your arguments.

Last edited by MissConstrue on 20 Jun 2009, 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

"Nice guys," almost universally, tend to focus on their rejection rate vs. others.

"McDonald's makes a better hamburger than your mom because they make more?" ~House

If you're a "nice guy," then shouldn't you be caring about the quality of the emotional side of the relationship? Girls who go for jerks and whatnot care considerably less about the emotional side than the girls who go for nice guys. Nice guys are rare, but something that isn't quite as well known is that nice girls are rare as well. Nice guys get discouraged because they never seem to meet the nice girls. It just takes a while.

This might sound like a contradiction in terms, but I'm a nice guy and if girls don't like it - they can look elsewhere.

After struggling with this for quite some time, it's only a few months back that I came to realise it's more about the lack of confidence that nice guys sometimes portray. This is what might cause girls to shy away.

Hence the change in attitude .

My girlfriend of three months - who always went for jerks before me - has recently dumped me (it also seems she will continue the trend of going for jerks from this point on...).. and for the first time after coming to the end of a relationship, changing who I am is the LAST thing I feel like doing.

I'm proud to be a nice guy and that's exactly the way I'm staying. I've managed to get just as many girlfriends being nice as I did when I was younger - and a jerk. So I've obviously got something that some women must want - something worth keeping .

Nice guys, be proud of who you are - if the girl ain't interested, show them the door. Don't waste the time and effort on someone who seems quite intent on being with a man who will mistreat her.

i concur...no girl wants a guy that makes them feel like crap they dont want someone who is boring..but they want a nice fun charming gentlemen...i have been acting nice for some time now... and i have had countless women falling in love with me... normal women

I might get flamed here, but I will not let ignorance stand in the way of truth. The single (almost) biggest conundrum in all of male-female relationships: Girls crave emotion. They don't want a boring, emotionless brick who, despite their nice personality, brings no emotion to a girl's life. On the other hand is the typical a**hole male who ventures into relationship with the sole motive of sex. They will treat their girlfriend like crap and bring her to tears. But that's just it - he brings her to tears. Despite having a negative personality they incite wild emotions to the female, and so the female clings to him. The truth holds - nice guys finish last- much of those who treat women with respect they deserve will always lose out to said 'alpha'-types.

So near and yet so far. You are right about two things:

1)Girls don't want a boring emotionless brick who, despite their nice personality, brings no emotion to a girl's life

2)Sometimes a girl will cling to a jerk who brings her to tears simply because he has brought up strong emotions and she gets something out of feeling SOMETHING.

You then wrongly conclude that nice guys finish last. Being a nice guy does not equate to being a boring, emotionless brick who brings no emotion to a girl's life. The nice guy's who bring POSITIVE emotion to a girl's life do quite well.

its sad but true...girls go for asses

your pretty bright for a 17 year old

Attractive people, men or women, really want to be seen for the people they are rather than superficial qualities. Beautiful people want to be seen for who they are and communicated with on that level as much as those considered less attractive.

It is difficult to see inside and truly communicate with another person if all you are doing is lusting after that person. Lust gets everyone into trouble. You end up attracted to the superficial appearance of another person and therefore the way that you respond and communicate with that person lacks depth and is not conducive to develop a relationship or to sustain a relationship overtime.

I have struggled with this problem. I finally realized that I was attracted to jerks because they induced my lust. Once I admitted that to myself I was able to differentiate between lust and love. Women aren't generally "allowed" to admit that they feel lust but once I had that figured out then those "jerk" guys had a lot less power over me. If you want to help change women's attitudes among the women you meet then make it okay for a woman to admit when she feels lust in your communication with her and let her know it is okay to feel that way because if she can identify lust for what it is then she can deal more effectively with that emotion.

I think that when women get older, if they are wise, they learn to tell the difference between the two emotions. And then we are not so "led by the nose" by men who fulfill the ideals that our society says is attractive in a man. We can identify when we are feeling lust and deal with it more objectively. Just like men do when they view something that causes them to feel lust.



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Yes this is the crux of the issue. Women are attracted to men who cause them to feel. FYI that's what women call "chemistry". It is sad that some "jerks" have figured out that they can use this to manipulate women. To get a woman to an emotional state and mistreat her is abhorrent and sick. It's taking advantage of their vulnerablilties.

Last edited by rathernotsay on 02 Aug 2009, 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.