Women: pickiness and relationship type

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And you'd be right. After the breakup, I started to realize that it's not just the romantic possibilities that my church isn't providing (and to be honest that shouldn't be their responsibility), but also there's the fact that I don't even have any friends my own age anymore. And so now I've been making a lot of waves in the church. Since I offer so much of my time to them, they have to either make a concerted effort to fulfill my spiritual needs, or I have to go find a church that does. The problem is that I don't know of any churches in the area that serve a younger congregation... quite the contrary, most young adults seem to be averse to any organized religion...


The only thing that tells me was to remind me how fickle teenagers are... it had been almost 4 years since I had turned 18 at that point, and I had forgotten what it was like to be that...

It's not going to stop me from trying. I need to know what's going to happen before it happens. Otherwise events just happen around me and I become overwhelmed by them, and then I can't do anything about it and I feel lost as a result. I just can't think in real-time, especially when it comes to analyzing social situations...

If heartbreak is as unavoidable as you claim, how do you deal with it? It would take me another 3 years to find someone else in order to do that whole "get over someone by getting under someone else" thing you mentioned, and all that while I'm suffering from heartbreak like that.

Dude, you do not know why that girl didn't call you. Did you ever think maybe she was too shy or felt awkward? Maybe she thought you were trying to punk her? Maybe she was embarrassed because her observation of you wasn't as subtle as she thought it was. As an NT girl, I can tell you that shy guys are not unattractive - sometimes their shyness makes them more attractive. So you can choose to interpret her failure to call you as being all about how horrible and unworthy you are, but if you do that, I hope you realize that is all about low self-esteem, and not about her reality.

As for your ex - bro you had oral sex with her on the second date! I mean, she didn't force herself on you, did she? You did consent, correct? How much do you think you can know about someone's character by the second date? You know - character - like can you trust her? Like does she want the same things out of life that you do? Like is an emotional commitment necessary for her before she takes her top off? How much can you know about someone's character by the second date? Not a freaking thing. You were so eager to get laid you weren't thinking about her character, dude. And I'm not blaming you for that - most of us want sex. But if you wanted the commitment before you got sexual, then you should have taken the time to get the commitment before you got sexual.

You can continue to blame her, but it's not her responsibility. You were just as willing as she was - more willing, obviously, because you're still pissed that she didn't put out. And as far as her intentions go....she may have intended to have sex with you when she got into bed with you, but something happened that changed her mind. Or were you two just fooling around on a bed, and you assumed that meant you were going to have sex? Did she tell you she was going to have sex with you? Cause most women are not reckless enough to be in a private location with a man, in some state of undress, engaging in sexual activity - if their true intention is to deny the man sex. That's just incredibly dangerous, and even moderately intelligent women would never think that was a good plan.

You seem to want to portray this girl as some kind of evil temptress, but have you stopped to consider why she chose not to have sex? Is it possible that something you said or did put her off? Is it just possible that she realized she didn't want to have a relationship with you, and therefore shouldn't have sex with you - because she knew you weren't interested in casual sex?

Look, you can stay angry, or you can learn from this experience. And hopefully what you'll learn is that you should make your intentions clear up front, then take the time to get to know the person before you get sexual so you can be certain you share the same goals. Or you can decide the lesson to be learned is to stay away from women. It's your choice.

You're misunderstanding me. What I'm saying is, what did she think, she's going to do everything else but sex with a virgin, but that he's going to wait for the sex? (By the way, the main reason she wanted to wait is because she wasn't over her ex of 3 years...but if that's the case, why even do anything sexually?) I know the answer...you said it yourself...she wanted to date, while also testing me out as a potential long-term partner.

I'm not mad at her. And I'm glad we didn't have sex. After we broke up, we realized we had a serious personality clash anyway. I was opinionated, and she was a stick in the mud.

I'm happy that I met her, or else I wouldn't even know what it's like to be on a date in public with a girl and what it's like to click with a girl albeit temporarily. Also wouldn't know what it was like to kiss a woman that I find attractive and is a good kisser.

The reason I'm hesistant to date is because I want to be on the same exact page as the person I'm dating, whether it's being friends and having sex, or being romantic and waiting for the sex. If I had known her intentions all along, it would have made things a lot clearer, and I wouldn't have tried to make her my girlfriend. We would have eventually stopped dating anyway when we found our personalities weren't compatible, but it would been less of a headache.

Look outside of a church-based organization.



Well, what I hoped it would tell you is that you can't control a relationship.



Do you realize what you just said? You need to know what's going to happen before it happens? No you don't - and not just because that's an absolute impossibility. You need to develop the skills to cope with life as it happens - that's what we all have to do. (After all, you didn't know what was going to happen with the 17-year-old, and you survived it.)



The whole "get over someone by getting under someone else" concept and phrasing is kind of pissing me off. That reduces everything to a sexual level, and that's not what I've advocated at all. My whole point is that if you accept that dating is the process one uses to learn about another person and evaluate their potential as a possible mate, asking someone else out should not be as significant, all-important, and life-changing as you make it. If you look at it as the chance to get to know someone better, that will help in putting it in it's proper perspective. It will also minimize any heartbreak, because if it doesn't work out, you'll be losing someone you've had a few dates with, rather than someone you expected to marry.

Also, we were online/phone friends a month before even meeting and going on the first date, so she knew full well what she was getting into, I didn't. I'm not mad at her...she didn't realize I needed a full explanation, but I'm just saving myself the aggravation by hooking up with someone it's nothing more than a handshake to anyway, let alone someone who isn't going to completely hook up and is just going to decide "sticking my mouth inside you is fine but intercourse isn't."

Did she tell you that she was going to do everything but penetration? Is that what you two agreed to? Or are you divining her "intentions" after the fact? Because it didn't seem like she gave you a reason for dumping you - she just stopped taking your calls, correct? I'm sorry dude, it sure seems like you consider yourself her victim in all this, and IMO, you just weren't.

So....how exactly do you think you "get on the same page" with a young lady? Because in my book, it's dating (not whipping it out for a bj on the second date).

Church-based organizations are the only ones I know of where the socialization doesn't revolve around drinking.


I don't expect to be able to control one. I just want to know what's going to happen so that I'm prepared for it. And that's not just relationships, that's for life in general.

I can't even understand what's happening as it happens... it's all just a blur to me. I'm stuck for days, weeks, or even months after a particular event analyzing it, realizing how many stupid blunders I've made, and dealing with the regret for some months after that...

The way I see it, I can show up to the test having studied and prepared for it and pass, or show up with zero preparation whatsoever, not have any clue what's going on, and fail spectacularly...

I feel as though if I approached dating like that, then all I will ever know is meaningless flings. Nobody is ever going to want to get serious with me... and that's what I, as a person, need at this point in my life...

OMG - did you ever think maybe she didn't want to risk getting pregnant? Stop acting like she failed to fulfill her end of the bargain because she didn't serve her vagina up to you. No woman is obligated to do that - ever.

Toad, I suggest you get some help developing the coping skills you need to improve your ability to interact with people in real time. That will help you in relating to everyone, not just women.

As far as the non-drinking events go, well I've given you advice in that area before. If you choose to ignore it, that's all you.

As far as the whole "unlovable" routine....I'm tired of it, bro. If you feel that unlovable, get a therapist and work through your issues. Get a trainer and start exercising. Pick an eating plan and follow it. Any of those would yield a better result than complaining about how you don't like yourself or your life, while refusing to do anything differenlty.

Hope, after our first date, she said "We're going to have sex" and when we were fooling around in her bed, she said that when she was ready to have sex, I wouldn't have to be worried about the awkwardness of buying condoms, that she'd have them, and was dirty talking me and telling me how badly in graphic detail she was going to have sex with me. While I'm not a victim (just a learned lesson)...the lesson she learned is don't tell a virgin you're going to have sex with him, and then when you have foreplay, not expect him to get feelings for you? I never once told her I was the hook up type that wanted things casual.

And no she didn't stop answering my calls, she gave me the friends speech on the way to one of our dates...the rest I don't want to talk about because it got ugly and I'm equally as responsible for the rest, if anything fully responsible for trying to "win her back."

Also, LOL at the pregnancy thing. The woman has had sex with over 15-20 men in her life, a lot of them one night stands. I'm sure pregnancy didn't scare her. She just wanted to date me without me getting feelings for her and being a robot and just having "fun" sex with her when she was ready.

I'll have to speak to the past here, since I am now solidly married:

Fling - less picky about the "big" stuff (job, values, etc) and more picky about the mundane stuff (annoying habits, looks, etc).

Commitment - more picky about the big stuff and magically no longer noticing the negative mundane stuff.

(I realize this thread has advanced a bit beyond the OP's question, but I don't have time to consider all the tangents at the moment)

Hope, the sex isn't the point anyway. It wasn't a black and white situation. She'd just broke up with her long term boyfriend, which contributed to a lot of the waiting.

The only thing I'm having trouble with is how one minute you can be having serious conversations, and talking about going on a vacation together, and the next minute, you change your number so the person can never contact you again. It means that my interaction with her, to her, meant absolutely nothing, that I was just some weird guy she dated for a month and knew for a few months. While that isn't her fault, it's just the NT way, I want to prevent that from happening again.

Aren't you leaving part of her statement about having sex out? Didn't she say you were going to have sex, after she was over her ex? So, your relationship with her didn't last long enough for her to get over her ex, so she didn't have sex with you. Why are you then putting all of this on her and her horrible intentions?

BTW, she didn't learn any lesson from you - she's not responsible for your feelings - you are. I hope what you learned is that you shouldn't be sexual with someone you don't know well, because you can't depend on them developing feelings for you as a result of sexual behavior.

And I'm sorry, but if you knew that she'd had sex with 15-20 men in her life (many of them one night stands), then you knew that she didn't have to be involved emotionally with a man in order to sleep with him. So you may not have told her that you were the "hook up type" - but you knew darn well that she was. She was interested in being your f@ck buddy, and you wanted a gf. If you'd taken the time to date her before getting sexual with her, you would have learned of the difference in your goals, and spared yourself the trouble. I think what's closer to the truth, however, is that you knew she was easy, you wanted to break off a piece for yourself, and you thought she'd find you so amazing that she'd fall in love with you.

Really, it's "just the NT way?" So do I get to say it's "just the Aspie way" to stalk your ex to the point she has to change her phone number? Cause most women won't go to the trouble of changing their phone number - which means having to give out your new number to all your relatives and family - unless they really need to.

No, Hope nice try though. We genuinely hit it off when we were talking online and on the phone and on the first date. I wanted a girlfriend. I wanted to have sex with her because I liked her (and yes, you can like someone after talking to them online and on the phone for a month.)

I like you Hope and you give good advice. Please don't stereotype me as both a guy that wanted easy sex and also wanted her to fall in love. Neither is the case. I wanted a girlfriend.

And also, if she wanted a f**k buddy, say it. f**k buddies don't go out on dinner dates.

Either way, while it may sound it, I'm not mad at her. I'm mad at the NT dating game, and I don't intend to meet a woman online again unless me and her know each other's end goals beforehand.

Also, Hope, I can classify her as a typical NT. Her last boyfriend learned her ATM password and stole thousands of dollars from her bank account for drugs, and last time her and I talked, she was still friends with him. So, yes NT's, are screwed up. A guy wants a girlfriend and gets dumped. Another guy steals thousands of dollars from his girlfriend for drug money, and I bet they get back together at some point if they haven't already.