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Pandora_Box
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17 Mar 2011, 1:34 pm

They can do a paternity test a 10 weeks.

That's next week.

We scheduled it for it to happen during her dialy check up

When we find out, I'm not going to be a part of her life.



billsmithglendale
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17 Mar 2011, 3:24 pm

Two reasons why you should dump her, right now (and mind you, this is coming from someone who had an affair and got caught, and was forgiven):

-- The personal angle -- she shared her body, and apparently her ovaries, with someone else. She is likely having his child, based on what I've learned from books like "Sperm Wars". On sheer principle, this should be over, you will never trust her again. In my case, I was forgiven, but I didn't get the other woman pregnant -- that would have been a marriage-killer, if I had.

--The genetic/gene war angle -- if this is indeed the other guy's child, every moment you spend from here on supporting her is actually helping another guy's genes find success. You are in effect being used to promote someone else's interests, both personally, and in the grand scheme of things. Why should you reward his genes and hers? Both have been shown to be unscrupulous. Let them figure out their own solutions, and take yourself out of this.



hale_bopp
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17 Mar 2011, 3:34 pm

Hes getting a test. If it's not his kid I believe that he won't have anything to do with the mother or the kid.

minus respect for you having an affair though.



Lene
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17 Mar 2011, 3:54 pm

Pandora_Box wrote:

We scheduled it for it to happen during her dialy check up


Daily check ups 8O Wow. No wonder American gynaecologists always appear to be loaded... that and yearly pap smears...

lol, where I'm from you get about 12 check ups your entire pregnancy.

(edit: if it's due to some underlying health issue, then apologies)



Pandora_Box
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17 Mar 2011, 5:02 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
Two reasons why you should dump her, right now (and mind you, this is coming from someone who had an affair and got caught, and was forgiven):

-- The personal angle -- she shared her body, and apparently her ovaries, with someone else. She is likely having his child, based on what I've learned from books like "Sperm Wars". On sheer principle, this should be over, you will never trust her again. In my case, I was forgiven, but I didn't get the other woman pregnant -- that would have been a marriage-killer, if I had.

--The genetic/gene war angle -- if this is indeed the other guy's child, every moment you spend from here on supporting her is actually helping another guy's genes find success. You are in effect being used to promote someone else's interests, both personally, and in the grand scheme of things. Why should you reward his genes and hers? Both have been shown to be unscrupulous. Let them figure out their own solutions, and take yourself out of this.


It kind of reminds of the Coocoo bird.



billsmithglendale
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17 Mar 2011, 6:00 pm

Pandora_Box wrote:
billsmithglendale wrote:
Two reasons why you should dump her, right now (and mind you, this is coming from someone who had an affair and got caught, and was forgiven):

-- The personal angle -- she shared her body, and apparently her ovaries, with someone else. She is likely having his child, based on what I've learned from books like "Sperm Wars". On sheer principle, this should be over, you will never trust her again. In my case, I was forgiven, but I didn't get the other woman pregnant -- that would have been a marriage-killer, if I had.

--The genetic/gene war angle -- if this is indeed the other guy's child, every moment you spend from here on supporting her is actually helping another guy's genes find success. You are in effect being used to promote someone else's interests, both personally, and in the grand scheme of things. Why should you reward his genes and hers? Both have been shown to be unscrupulous. Let them figure out their own solutions, and take yourself out of this.


It kind of reminds of the Coocoo bird.


Yes, that is the perfect example, and had you not found out, you would have been the Cuckoo. It happens far more than we realize -- some estimates put the number as high as 10% in the human population as the amount of offspring men think are theirs that are not in reality.

I know this is a pretty sore topic right now for you, but if you ever do feel like analyzing the whole thing and getting some perspective, which might make you feel better in the sense that misery loves company, I recommend two books -- "Sperm Wars," and "The Red Queen."

From a purely genetic POV, it's not a bad strategy -- the guy gets his genes out there, and someone else pays the bill. Think of how much this must have happened, undiscovered, back before we had DNA testing. Fascinating.



Pandora_Box
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17 Mar 2011, 7:51 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
Yes, that is the perfect example, and had you not found out, you would have been the Cuckoo. It happens far more than we realize -- some estimates put the number as high as 10% in the human population as the amount of offspring men think are theirs that are not in reality.

I know this is a pretty sore topic right now for you, but if you ever do feel like analyzing the whole thing and getting some perspective, which might make you feel better in the sense that misery loves company, I recommend two books -- "Sperm Wars," and "The Red Queen."

From a purely genetic POV, it's not a bad strategy -- the guy gets his genes out there, and someone else pays the bill. Think of how much this must have happened, undiscovered, back before we had DNA testing. Fascinating.


Um...thanks.



wefunction
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17 Mar 2011, 8:45 pm

Lene wrote:
@memeticist...not to derail the thread, but that story's extremely disturbing. What your wife did was wrong, but your reaction to it seems borderline psychopathic.


This. That post scared the crap out of me.



Pandora_Box
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18 Mar 2011, 1:38 am

wefunction wrote:
This. That post scared the crap out of me.


Was it suppose to scare me in the process?

<----don't want to be psychopathic



Lene
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18 Mar 2011, 6:45 am

Pandora_Box wrote:
wefunction wrote:
This. That post scared the crap out of me.


Was it suppose to scare me in the process?

<----don't want to be psychopathic


I don't think so. It was directed at another member.

I don't think you're psychopathic. If you hung around and tried to mould your ex-fiance into your idea of a better person through emotional abuse, then you'd have more of a case.



MCalavera
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18 Mar 2011, 8:03 am

Memeticist wrote:
for my money, getting the test then getting the hell out of there fast is your best bet. Even if you are the kid's father, weekend visits and regular phone calls are enough while you avoid the girl.

tl;dr My ex wife cheated on me after 5 years of being a b***h, i treated her like crap for 3 years to make her a better person and now we still live together (and will for another 2~ years) while she saves up for her new life.

Anecdote: I was married for 5 years and offered my partner everything, blinded by love I didn't realize how badly I had it when she assumed 0 responsibility for her own happiness. I urged her to go to school (I offered to pay for it) or get a job to help her make friends and establish some kind of life for herself and she refused, then she'd complain of how lonely and bored she was. After I left military service we moved into a temporary situation with a male roomate that she decided to cheat on me with.

I immediately made the decision to forgive her, explained that once I'd had the chance to get a grip on things I'd need the full story and we'd have to talk. When we did talk she explained she "deserved" to cheat on me because of things that happened before we married and "how poorly I treated her." I worked 50+ hours a week on a rotating schedule Noon to night, night to morning for 4 years, I supported us entirely and purchased her a car she could learn to drive in. I was always with her, I took her everywhere, introduced her to my friends in the hope she'd make some kind of social connection. Apparently, only doing some of the chores myself and not dragging her by the hair into the driver seat and forcefeeding her the skill of driving constituted the ultimate failure to fulfill her needs. I digress.

It took 6 months to finally get her to admit the entirety of what she did (but by then I couldn't really trust her). It was another 6 before she could admit what she'd done was entirely unjustified and during all of this she would throw my efforts to comfort her in my face (that's right, I, the victim of betrayal was comforting my betrayer because I was the only person within 6000 miles that gave a rat's ass about her). After a year she realized just how wonderful I had been because after a year of being lied to and told she "was glad it happened because it brought to light the problems in our relationship" (which it did, just not in the way she meant) I transformed into a walking victimization robot. I destroyed the narcissistic, spoiled thing she called a personality with constant references to her indiscretion and repeated infidelity on my own part, first with her "friend" then with a later roommate, citing it as justified because I couldn't get any validation as a man from a woman that had chosen to betray me as she had. Every time she complained I would thrust her own violation of my trust back in her face while mitigating my own transgressions because I was being honest about what I was doing. Every time she wanted to leave I told her to go, but pointed out that being the one to make a mistake and then just leave to avoid the fallout made her even more of a piece of trash than the betrayal itself, I also pointed out she'd have nowhere to go besides her family's home, a family that would judge her even more harshly than I. It was like emotionally flaying her alive and it forced the pulsating broken remains of her self to grow new adult tissues. i hated the person I became but I became that guy because I knew it would draw her to me, and I loved her so much that was all I wanted.

Now, 3 years later, she's amazing, a truly wonderful person that will never make that kind of a mistake again, but I can't be with her as a husband because I can't stand to look at her as a wife. i love her like I always have, i can't think of another person I want to keep in my life, but I can't be married to her. As a wife she's a cheating whore who's mouth drools lies. As a friend she's just the best. As an added complication she's confident she will never find love again. I may have accidently inflicted a case of stockholme syndrome on her (I never physically restrained her or forced her to do anything through violence or coercion, I simply refused to buy a plane ticket), then again, the few serious relationships I've had besides her have resulted in the girls being pretty hung up on me for a while afterward (they usually move on to another guy quickly but continue to have "feelings for me" long after we part ways).

So now we share a tiny apartment with our cats, I take care of the bulk of the financial responsibilities, she takes care of the rest and keeps the place clean and works so she can save up enough to to have a good start when she moves out in a couple of years. This is a whole lot of complication for trying to forgive. Just walk away and let the forgiveness be conditional upon her absence.


Man, you think you're in control, but she's still playing you. You're still a victim of her histrionic games, but this time you also became a monster to yourself.

Good luck to you as you continue your life with that whore. You need it big time.



billsmithglendale
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18 Mar 2011, 12:35 pm

Pandora_Box wrote:
billsmithglendale wrote:
Yes, that is the perfect example, and had you not found out, you would have been the Cuckoo. It happens far more than we realize -- some estimates put the number as high as 10% in the human population as the amount of offspring men think are theirs that are not in reality.

I know this is a pretty sore topic right now for you, but if you ever do feel like analyzing the whole thing and getting some perspective, which might make you feel better in the sense that misery loves company, I recommend two books -- "Sperm Wars," and "The Red Queen."

From a purely genetic POV, it's not a bad strategy -- the guy gets his genes out there, and someone else pays the bill. Think of how much this must have happened, undiscovered, back before we had DNA testing. Fascinating.


Um...thanks.


I understand my comments must seem insensitive -- they aren't meant to be. I think nothing is going to feel or sound good right now, but in a while, you may find it cathartic to explore the issues and understand that in fact there might be a lot less personal stuff going on with this incident that it would seem. It isn't necessarily a rejection or a judgment by her about you as a person, and you're not a flawed person for having this happen to you -- it is much more common than we realize.

For example -- the other poster with the fairly in-depth explanation of his own misery with this issue, one thing was constant that I have noticed on shows that constantly discuss these kinds of situations (trash TV, like Maury or Springer) - what I call the "Jerry Springer rule." It is a mistake for a couple to ever cohabitate with someone long term and not expect something like this to happen. It's a common situation -- best friend moves in with a boyfriend and girlfriend, pretty soon one of them (the one of the opposite gender) starts sleeping with the other person. There are some basic biological principles at work here that seem to break down even the most moral of people (admittedly the ghetto idiots and trailer trash on those two shows are not the creme de la creme, but a certain amount of them must consider themselves "good Christians, etc.")

At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself -- is it that people are evil, or is that we are animals with some very basic instincts that are older and more powerful than our fairly artificial constraints like marriage and monogamy? We're not necessarily designed to be monogamous animals -- evolutionary biologists can often tell this by gonad size and other factors in other primates (and other mammals). The fact that Springer and Maury have this steady stream of people who slept with their wife's best friend, their husband's father, any variation you can think of (and no, those shows are in fact 95% not fake, contrary to rumor) shows that this is a very common situation.

That being said, should you forgive her? No, she's probably having someone else's baby. Your trust is gone, your feelings have changed, and it's probably over, unless you are one of those very rare couples where one can forgive the other's infidelity. And be grateful that you have science to help you tell whether the child is yours, rather than 50 years ago, when you would have had to struggle for years over whether you did the right thing by leaving her and whoever's child.



Pandora_Box
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18 Mar 2011, 6:47 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
I understand my comments must seem insensitive -- they aren't meant to be. I think nothing is going to feel or sound good right now, but in a while, you may find it cathartic to explore the issues and understand that in fact there might be a lot less personal stuff going on with this incident that it would seem. It isn't necessarily a rejection or a judgment by her about you as a person, and you're not a flawed person for having this happen to you -- it is much more common than we realize.


They didn't seem insensitive.

Just not sure I want to the read books.



Pandora_Box
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20 Mar 2011, 11:36 pm

So a little update.

She went for her checkup.

And even before the results, she just went onto announcing to me that I was not the father. And gave me some information and feedback why.



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21 Mar 2011, 1:53 am

I would get a paternity test anyway.



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21 Mar 2011, 2:09 am

Pandora_Box wrote:
So a little update.

She went for her checkup.

And even before the results, she just went onto announcing to me that I was not the father. And gave me some information and feedback why.


So she is a worthless c**t and you owe her NOTHING. She can f**k off with her bastard kid.