men who can talk to women

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I don't know about other women, but for me, absolutely it's about how they come on to you.
Who wants to spend a fair amount of time around someone, all the while they tell you that they are a friend (even if you consider them an acquaintance) for 6 months, 9 months or more (hell, I've had three where it was a year and a half ) until one day they decide to attempt to kiss you or worse?
It's about the lack of honesty and the manipulation involved - how the hell are you supposed to trust someone enough to start dating them when they've already lied to and manipulated you?
(keeping in mind all these admitted when I asked them WTF where they thinking that they had intended this since I met them)

Regardless of whether they were "what I wanted", it's moot point after that sort of thing, because everything that you had built until that point was based on a lie.

I've never heard such stories, but I've seen them in a bunch of really bad romantic comedies. I even tried it myself, but I ended up being an intellectual whore to some dumbass who just kept getting hurt. Eventually I became the boyfriend's friend, and then I exploited her with him because I saw no point in trying to be nice anymore.

I see deliberately not becoming friends as putting up a glass wall. I don't think it's fair at all to say that anyone who tries to be friends first is lying about their intentions. How should I know whether I am going to fall for someone months or years down the road? Why should I put off possible friendships just because there's also the possibility that I might take more a liking to them? It would only be more awkward to tell people I can't be friends just because it might turn into something more later on.

Well theres really no reason to even label or "define" it in the first place if that's how you feel - just be honest with them about that.

I don't see the problem with being friends, as long as you are honest about your intentions. Letting a girl know early on that you find her attractive (physically, mentally, whatever) means she has an idea that you might be up for a relationship.

Something simple, like "I think you're very pretty." or "I like girls who think the way you do.".

Then again, I'm no ace at chatting up guys, so take my advice with a truckload of salt and then some.

Why should he be made to feel ashamed of asking the question. It does come off as if that is what you are implying. But how else do we learn?

I'm not too sure I understand. Are you referring to my criticism of someone making too many threads in one section in such a short period of time? No one should be ashamed to ask for any advice but there is such a thing as self control and a lot of this stuff could have been chucked into a single thread. That's just my opinion but I'll give them a benefit of a doubt. I've been using forums for years not everyone particularly uses them.

I can't. I need to write about everything. Sure january, I give it a break.

Actually, even though I was really nervous when I first started trying to talk to girls I really liked, I was usually able to make myself do it. The problem was that the girls would not talk back. So, no, getting your nerve up is not all it takes. Well, I guess it is if your only goal is to talk TO the girl, but if you want her to like you and talk back, it is not sufficient.

BTW I'm just fine at talking to girls now (at least by aspie standards), so I'm not going to respond if your response is some really obvious advice.

It's funny, in some cases guys like me just can't win.

You admit your feelings up front, and you're "taking it too fast" or are a "creep" but if you wait, you're still a "creep." In some cases the girl just thinks you're trying to get in her pants. At least if you aren't high up on the social ladder. Guys who are high up on the social ladder can do whatever they want, pretty much. Oh yeah, and even in the middle ground, "beta" males (shouldn't that be "omega" males since betas can still get girls!) pretty much get tossed aside.

Well, the "telling her about your feelings and hope she reciprocates" is a bad approach anyway. The few times it works, either she's not that into you, or another approach would have worked better anyway. What I've seen that works better is showing that you've got some attraction towards her; there is nothing wrong with feeling attracted to someone so why hide it? Women usually know, and some assume it anyway, and that's a good thing because a relationship, if that's what you're looking for, will be more natural than if she had no idea and you mentioned it to her out of the blue. After enough time has passed, when it's reasonable for her to be attracted to you, and very important, after it's reasonable for you to be attracted to her as a person (if you do something too early then she'll think you're looking for something else. And she wouldn't be entirely wrong.) When the time is right you can... uh... this seems more complicated than i first thought. "Making a move" like going for a kiss, out of the blue does not work, she'll be dumbfounded, will probably reject it, and if it felt awkward to you to have the need to "make a move", well, that's because it is awkward. It should be more like little moves, that organically and naturally lead one to another, and touch is usually involved. It's hard for many aspies, me included, but necessary. I don't know the standards in other countries, so I can't say what's appropriate and what's not (even here I couldn't say much, it's something you get from experience rather than thinking) but the point is, learn stuff like when can you put your arm around her shoulder, or tickle, or hug, if you don't know how to do those then you shouldn't be worrying about kissing yet anyway. Of the four girls I've kissed, one was more or less dumb luck but two involved the power of dancing, and one was a romantic evening in a bar, she was in my lap and kissing was the next natural thing to do. Getting to that point took me years though .

What should have been an explanation of why you could appear as taking things too fast or waiting too much turned out to be longer than expected. To end the idea: if you spend too much time doing nothing, the timeframe will be over and she'll stop thinking about you as a potential partner. Especially if you haven't been touching her (because if you have, then one thing leads into other and chances are you'd be with her already ), then she'll think you're not attracted.

Now I do things differently, in a less step by step manner,but before running you gotta learn how to walk. And knowing this stuff definitely put me into the right track. Who'd know I'd end up giving out this kind of advice

^^^
See, I don't even think about that stuff since I find touching natural and forget that others here are the exact opposite. It's harder to stop myself from doing it than it is to start it.
But good point: if the verbal and physical indictators don't match up together within the right timeframe, they usually don't take you seriously.

men have to have boundaries, women do not

If you have no empathy, then you're not gonna get put in the "friend zone" of most females, as they'll tell you their problems and you'll be like "Oh, well, your car's broke, well, go outside and take a look in the fusebox and...." and they just want someone to vent to, not to help solve the problem.

With regards to the AS men that suffer from this condition (which I am going to assume you are talking about) I can tell you this:

The courtship process is a very delicate and tricky business which requires a lot of pushing, pulling and subtle non-verbal hints, clues and reading this communication.
We (AS people) will just be nice and not send out any subtle/non-verbal signs saying we are interested in a romantic relation so she will simply assume we are a good nice guy, perfect friend material.
It's very hard to change a girls mind about you once your 'role' in her life is established. Because we are very cautious people we won't mention the possibility of dating after a period of getting to know each other and a friendship has formed, making us comfortable enough to even entertain the thought of asking her out for an actual 'date'. By that time however we've already become 'a friend' as far as she's concerned and the idea of dating you is beyond her scope.

NT men don't suffer this problem because they are on the prowl from the get-go and the NT woman knows this from the moment they first start communication.
NT men want to conquer a girl and then find out if she is compatible after the 'relationship' deal has already been sealed. AS men are the other way around.
This is not a problem until you realize NT women are the same way and it is easier to forgive, rationalize and compromise for someone's flaws when you are already engaged than when you are deciding whether to start dating in the first place.

and women don't have to worry about being friend-zoned since they usually get to have the final say