Money more important than Love?

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its not about the money. Just listen to this song.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-TSaH7T7_k[/youtube]

No your logic is good, career before love.

However, my own experience, and something for you to consider;

When I was 19, there was lots of girls available for dating (ignoring the fact i was too afraid).
As I moved through my early 20's, I started to attend more and morefriend's weddings.
By the time I was 24, it was hard (read - impossible) to find a single girl at all.
Mid 30's, devorces start to happen and single girls start becomming more common.
Mid 40's and 50's, there are lots and lots of single women. All experienced and all very sure of themselves. They don't want a guy like me (so I'm still SOOL).

I've seen numerous counselors (one L), therapists, psychologists, pastors, etc. I'm currently in a Christ-centered 12-step program called Celebrate Recovery. Yet, for all those efforts, I haven't had any lasting desire to live without Michelle on a permanent basis. Its like the lyrics of an old country song I heard as a kid:

The bluest eyes in Texas are haunting me tonight
Like the stars that fill the midnight sky, her memory fills my mind
Where did I go wrong; did I wait too long, or can I make it right
The bluest eyes in Texas are haunting me tonight

Appropriately, the group's name was Restless Heart, which fits my emotional state completely. My sleeping pattern varies a lot, but I can't recall the last time the deepest part of me actually rested. I made a terrible mistake in placing Michelle on a pedestal which only God deserves to be on, and I don't want to repeat that...but at the same time, I really do feel haunted by regrets, and a desperation for things to be better between us. In spite of all the fights, anger, and accusations on both sides, I still see such a bright light of selfless love in her...and I'm scared she'll never see it in herself.

She's told me more than once, that among her reasons for leaving in the past was a sincere belief I deserved someone better than her; I still don't fully understand how that could be possible. I wish my own heart was as willing to let go sometimes, but its not. The only alternative I know of is continued pain, and I feel it getting closer every day. I don't want to go back to that nightmare, and I thought if she and I could rekindle something special, what I'd longed for all these years would finally come to pass. Ever since I fell for Michelle, the one thing I've wanted was a "free and clear" chance for mutual and genuine love, willing to tear down any obstacles in our way. February 9th will mark 13 years since we met...and I still feel alone and abandoned.

I try to believe that God will help me, however this turns out...but there's still this anger toward Him and her, for my continued suffering without any assurance of repair. I'm trying to be the "responsible adult", and just wait it out, but it doesn't give me any peace or joy. When we finished on the phone today, I cried into my pillow, so torn over everything. I am obsessive about things, including emotions, but I'm not crazy or dangerous. I'm just a man with a severely broken heart, desperately wanting to be whole again. I believe God can work miracles, and if Michelle's not right for me, then He will have to show me someone so great, they shatter every notion of love I've ever had.

He's dump with ease the moment he lays a hand on my body (and I'm going to put him jail). He is dump the moment I find out he cheats. If he steals my money, then he better get a lawyer.

If he's marry to me than I will destroy him once we're in court.

I don't put up with that, since I value my money and my body too highly. Yet, I will love him with all my heart up to that point.

From reading your posts on this thread I suspect that the reason you have not been helped by the numerous counsellors, therapists etc that you have seen is that you have not engaged fully in the therapeutic process. You consistently avoid the key issues, which are all about you, by diverting into talking about the past and about others. You, consciously or not, are evading the central issues by putting responsibility for you onto Michelle, and God. You need to stop doing that and to focus on why you do it. Whatever you are avoiding or denying in yourself has to be faced up to and worked through. If you can't or won't do that, then you will remain stuck in this rut.

Also, you mentioned in an earlier post that Michelle had said you were "manipulative and selfish". These are issues you need to address, not deny.

Your tendency to be manipulative is demonstrated in the posts which I have quoted here. You weren't content simply to tell me that you spell counsellor with one L, but you actually changed the spelling in my post. I am Scottish. My post is written in British English, and my spelling of counsellor and counselling is correct. For you to change my words to American English is, quite literally, manipulative.

Your selfishness is demonstrated by your desire to have Michelle place your needs above her own, and those of her child and partner. You say, "I know she loves her daughter, and I commend her for it...but what about my own needs?" Your needs are just that, yours.

Above, you say, "I believe God can work miracles, and if Michelle's not right for me, then He will have to show me someone so great, they shatter every notion of love I've ever had." This sounds like you are challenging or testing God. Don't do that. Let His will be done. Another WP member posted not long ago on another forum that they had come to realise that they didn't have to understand (particular aspects of their life). God understands, and that knowledge released them and gave them peace.

Love is a joke.

Money is more important than love. Just being realistic.

I'm just desperate for someone I can see and touch to love me as I am, instead of trying to put me in a mold I was never created to be in. I always knew I was somehow "different" since childhood, but could never explain it until I started reading about Asperger's.

She has said that, and I openly admit we've both behaved that way in the past. But its not who I am now, and for whatever reason, she won't believe me. Most people I've been around in my life have mistaken my persistent attempts to help them as being selfish, but I haven't been able to accurately express that's not my intent. I've read that a common symptom of AS is difficulty with expressing emotions socially, which often comes across to NTs as a lack of empathy.

I was not aware you were from Britain, nor that they spell counselor with an extra L. I'm sorry for the mix-up.

I don't want her to place my needs above her daughter's at all, but doing so with her own is the definition of selfless love. If all I cared about was my own comfort, I'd have left her alone years ago...but I saw a precious woman with tremendous love behind all that anger and pain, and I'm hoping that someday, she chooses to embrace that again. i know I can;t force her, but I can't change my desire to see her be free of that rage and bitterness, either.

I'm at a different point in my walk with God than other Christians, just as they are different from me. So few people have genuinely loved me outside of my mother and sister; I've never had any close friends. Frankly, being single and celibate at 33 is a real b***h...but as much as I want both love and sex, I want more to have peace over both between myself and God.

Everyone is desperate for this, nobody gets it. Someone people may successfully lie to themselves and others about this but it's never true.



If you are insisting on trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped than that is actually selfish.

Nobody really does anything altruistic, when you get to the 'real person', it's really always about self gratification, even when that need is to feel like you are a 'good person' 'helping others' etc. If anyone was truly altruistic their thoughts wouldn't even get to the part where they have to think if they are helping someone or not. It would just happen. And they wouldn't reference it back to themselves afterwards. The only time I know I've done something really helpful for people is when they tell me years later and I never even realised I was helping them at the time. I don't see how help can be premeditated and be selfless at the same time.

Let me give you an example of a former colleague of mine who said to me once, almost in tears "Why are people so hard on me, it's really difficult for me to be flexible but I still do it and then they turn around and say that I am not flexible."

So I pointed out that in order to be really properly genuinely flexible - he wouldn't have to try hard at all - it would just come naturally. So, he had a choice - either he owned up to the fact he was, actually, an inflexible person who sometimes goes out of his way to accommodate others or sit in tears because people didn't appreciate him for who he really was - even though who he was, wasn't really him.

No point bemoaning our lot. Either we do something about it or we do not.

Either we are part of the problem or we are part of the solution.

Your first point - basically you can't get this, or if you do you're lying to yourself - is completely ridiculous, and rather thought-constraining. It's not true.

If someone was going to jump off a bridge, therefore, you are saying that it is selfish to try and help them...obviously, the scenario is much more complex than that.

Being helpful, altruistic, self-serving...it all comes down to someone's internal motivation - not how it is seen from the outside.

Nobody really does anything altruistic, when you get to the 'real person', it's really always about self gratification, even when that need is to feel like you are a 'good person' 'helping others' etc. If anyone was truly altruistic their thoughts wouldn't even get to the part where they have to think if they are helping someone or not. It would just happen. And they wouldn't reference it back to themselves afterwards. The only time I know I've done something really helpful for people is when they tell me years later and I never even realised I was helping them at the time. I don't see how help can be premeditated and be selfless at the same time.

Projection, and a potential excuse for a cop out, in my opinion. The generalisation police have been dispatched.

Anyway, if people are all connected together, then helping another is helping oneself. Why see it in terms of this wonderful thing called altruism. Of course, someone would have to think if they were helping someone or not.

What do you mean 'it would just happen'?

I assure you, some people do 'altruistic' things - so successfully you haven't noticed them

Sounds like he wasn't doing anything that isn't common - having a fixed notion of 'who he was' and realising that flexible/inflexible can be applied across a million scenarios, and not a generalisation for a person. I'd agree - clearly he didn't understand who he was, but he's not the only one.

This idea of the 'real person'. Right. I have to disagree with that - I think you're confusing the ego with a person.

Now we're talking. The solution being - to see everyone connected together, rather than something to take from.

Like some other posters, it appears that you have all the answers right there in front of your face...and you choose to ignore them.

I find your possessiveness loathsome and disgusting - I have to say so. If you have been through the theraputic process, then I wonder if you've been seeing people who have kept you talking in circles to milk money from you. Trust me, there are techniques to let go of the past.

Your ex partner has made a choice. It's time you made one, too. Or, if not - what's it going to take?

You have a choice - formless over form. You cannot have both to your satisfaction, and you cannot move in different directions at once.

Oh yes - and that selfless love you saw in Michelle? It wasn't from Michelle, any more than water actually comes from a tap (ehem a faucet). She was the medium in which it moved through...that's really what a person is, when all the layers are stripped away.




Here's an answer: because He/he (who cares) knew it would work (it was the only thing you would pay attention to). And it did.

It gave you a chance to live on, and let go. You still haven't taken that chance.

I can usually get my own money, by what ever means and that makes me happy. Therefore, for me, money is my love

love aint dum. if no one loved each other thered be no babies and no babies and we would go extinct. you all woudnt hav been born.

you are not obliged to take it up but it doesn't mean it isn't true

Of course it's more complex, but you'd be lying if you said that whoever saw a person about to commit suicide and then tried to stop them wasn't being selfish. Otherwise, what entitles you to interfere in someone else's life like that?

the rest... you project and generalise more than anyone on this board, but nobody can see their blind spots so..whatever..preach away

I'm not obliged to do anything, correct.

You can see my blind spots? Really? How jolly nice. You don't even understand half of what I say at the best of times - so I'll assume you're half right.

You be personal, and throw the odd childish tantrum, should you want to - people will draw their own conclusions. Whatever you think of me is your business.

As I don't know you, and never will, I'll debate posts, thank you very much. And I'll care about people, regardless of the consequences.

Is it time for a slice of cake?