What is the difference between love and limerence?

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Pepe
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09 Sep 2020, 12:30 am

that1weirdgrrrl wrote:


Once again, the emphasis is on sexuality:
Quote:
For Tennov, "sexual attraction is an essential component of limerence ... the limerent is a potential sex partner".[9] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence


Therefore:
I have never experienced "Limerence" in its pure form.

I rest my case, me lord. 8)



Last edited by Pepe on 09 Sep 2020, 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
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09 Sep 2020, 12:34 am

kitten_caboodle wrote:
Thanks for the info Pepe!

"Based on my early research, when you are in "Limerence", you are infatuated by someone you don't really know. You are obsessed with the *image* of who you *think* the person is."

This is how I see it. The people who feel limerence usually waste opportunities to understand the real person, because they are so busy imagining who the person is. They use the person as an ego boost to make it feel like their dreams are coming true, even if they aren't aware that's the motivation. For example if I decided someone was exactly what I needed for personal or creative inspiration and I kept seeing them in that way by deleting the bits of their personality that were less convenient, it wouldn't be fair to the other person. I wouldn't want someone discarding the unnecessary parts of who I am, or ignoring them all together in favour of the parts that they found inspiring.

The people who have had crushes / possible limerence for me in the past usually seem to entertain a different version of who am I, than who I really am. It's hard to cross that bridge and tell them to wake up and like the real me, because then they are disappointed I didn't match their dream and they move on to the next person to be their muse while I'm left feeling "not good enough" for something I never was in the first place. In fact they were the person who fell short emotionally, not me. They couldn't do the real thing. Real love is so much nicer, when two people see each other for who they really are and that's good enough even with the person's faults.


Has this happened often?
Were you aware of what was going on, at the time?



Pepe
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09 Sep 2020, 12:39 am

that1weirdgrrrl wrote:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love


Quote:
Love has been postulated to be a function to keep human beings together against menaces and to facilitate the continuation of the species.[8]


Personally, I see that as self-evident. 8)



Pepe
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09 Sep 2020, 12:45 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don’t believe anybody is “defective” if one doesn’t experience limerence.

I don’t believe even asexual folks are “defective.”

I don’t believe I’m “defective” because I’m autistic. I have a bachelors degree—but I’ve only been an office clerk for 40 years. Ive never had much ambition. I’m retiring in 2.4 years with a pension.

What I’ve written is true about me. I’m a simple, not complex person. One can be “salt of the Earth” and creative. My wife is skeptical about the utility of creativity. She knows I write, but hasn’t seen my writing.

I used to believe I was a Bohemian....but then I realized that I couldn’t go the “whole 9 yards” with Bohemianism.

I wish I wrote like Jack Kerouac or Edna St. Vincent Millay. Can’t live the lifestyle, though.


Phew! :mrgreen:
I'm glad I write like *ME*, btw. 8)



rdos
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09 Sep 2020, 1:37 am

Pepe wrote:
that1weirdgrrrl wrote:


Once again, the emphasis is on sexuality:
Quote:
For Tennov, "sexual attraction is an essential component of limerence ... the limerent is a potential sex partner".[9] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence


Therefore:
I have never experienced "Limerence" in its pure form.

I rest my case, me lord. 8)


Everything in the NT world that is even remotely related to love is thought to include sexual attraction. These people are so focused on sex and dating that they cannot even envision it without that component. :roll:

I don't think there is any reason whatsoever to include sexual attraction in love. Sex and sexual attraction should be separate concepts and also differ substantially how they are experienced between NTs and everything else on earth, so why let NTs hijack this for things they are not relevant for?

So, no, limerence, infatuations, crushes, love, and attachment don't need to include sexual attraction. At least not the form experienced by NTs.



kraftiekortie
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09 Sep 2020, 6:57 am

I’ve never treated anybody “like a muse.”

I treat the genders equally, for the most part. I don’t curse like a sailor—but I don’t mince words too much. I know what not to say to women that I might say to a man.

Women think I’m so trustworthy that they talk about “feminine” things with me.

In the past, I was often the “good cop” in “good cop/bad cop” sorts of situations. That annoyed me a bit...but not enough not to be a decent friend to women who had abusive relationships.



kraftiekortie
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09 Sep 2020, 7:00 am

Any form of “beyond friends” sorts of situations has an element of sexual attraction. Sometimes, it is subtle; other times, it’s intense.



kitten_caboodle
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09 Sep 2020, 11:01 am

I don't think subtle or intense sexual attraction needs to be part of "beyond friends". Love and romance can exist without sex. Some people are asexual and they don't have sexual attraction, and some people aren't physically or emotionally capable of sex, but they like or love the person for their personality, morality, intelligence, or other traits. Some relationships and marriages are entirely asexual even if they are romantic ... not just on a friendship level.
I thought you started this topic by saying that you have had feelings of limerence and that it is literary because you create or use muses based on real life women to inspire your poetry? Sorry maybe it was someone else.

What are "feminine things" that people talk about by the way?



kraftiekortie
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09 Sep 2020, 12:05 pm

I know that. I feel like you don’t get me too well.

I’m into “moral love” which isn’t sexual. There are many types of love that aren’t sexual.

I know there’s romance without sex. I don’t have a one-tracked mind.

There is sexual attraction without actual sex. I know that, too.

I’ve experienced romance without sex many times. There was attraction, though, at least on my part. I would have waited for marriage if my lover wanted to wait for marriage.

I am well aware of the asexuality spectrum. I respect it.

An example of something “feminine” is “that time of the month” and the attendant irritations. One cannot deny that many women don’t like discussing this with men.

Why do I feel you don’t like me? I’m not perfect...but I‘m not all that lousy :P

Many literary people have used idealized and non-idealized muses to inspire them. It’s basically a “given.”

I’ve never had somebody use me as a muse—but I wouldn’t have minded if that happened. The burden is on the muser—not the “musee.” Though it might have upset me had the expectations of my lover (towards me) were not realized were I used as a muse by her.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 09 Sep 2020, 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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09 Sep 2020, 1:45 pm

I could be wrong, but I think kitten does like you. I think she is just talking about the topic and both of you are trying to understand the other.

Kortie, you are a wonderful person. I really respect you ability to look at complex issues and distill them into something clear. You have many dimensions that aren't always apparent. I have enjoyed reading this conversation. :D :heart:


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kraftiekortie
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09 Sep 2020, 2:10 pm

I think you’re right, BlazingStar.

The best kind of wise, in many situations, is Quaker-wise.



Pepe
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09 Sep 2020, 2:25 pm

Not a skerrick of "Platonic Love", in the conversation on this page.
Isn't *THAT* love without a sexual context? 8O

How can you have *romantic* love without a sexual component? :scratch:
I'm sure Romeo and Juliet had a bit of "slap and tickle" behind the stage curtains. :mrgreen:



kraftiekortie
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09 Sep 2020, 2:37 pm

I stated earlier that there’s many different sorts of non-sexual love.

Non-sexual love between unrelated (biologically or via adoption) people, in many cases, fits the definition of Platonic love.



Pepe
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09 Sep 2020, 2:48 pm

I guess my implied context was too specific.
I was referring to a love between two unrelated adults. (E.G. Romeo and Juliet)

Having said that, where is the word "platonic" mentioned on this page? 8O :mrgreen:



Last edited by Pepe on 09 Sep 2020, 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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09 Sep 2020, 2:52 pm

No....it wasn’t mentioned specifically as “Platonic.”



Pepe
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09 Sep 2020, 3:07 pm

I think there is a dichotomy between a relationship based on limerence and platonic "love".
Everything I have read, so far, suggests the former has to have a sexual component to it and involves a fantasy element.

And, limerence generally seems to imply a one-sided relationship, initially, though I have also read that it can be simultaneous, as well.

Interesting topic, this love stuff. ;)