Dating as a Fundie

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Any single trait on that list on it's own doesn't qualify them as a cult, but many of them do have more than the socially isolating trait.

Cults and religions exist on a spectrum without a clear dividing line. One could make the case that the major monotheistic faiths rely on deception, extraordinary claims, manipulation, dire warnings and being unquestionable, but some are far more extreme in how those traits are expressed than others.

When non-believers question the divinity of Christ (for example) the response tends to be out-of-hand dismissal of the skepticism because obviously they just hate god or similar. That's not just from the 'right-wing Christians' or the 'Christian fundies', that's from mainstream Christians, even with progressive leanings.

Obviously, I'm more familiar with criticizing Christianity, but I think it's fair to say Islam also has that problem (probably even more significantly).

They're the two biggest religions, and yet... they're pretty culty when you examine them objectively.

It's funny, because all of the non-Catholic Christians liked to focus on the Catholic Church's dirty laundry while ignoring their own churches had similar piles of the same laundry.

And it's not like that's limited to Christians.

The underlined is a really solid observation.

I think any child exposed to that level of psychological abuse in JW should get free, state sponsored trauma therapy for the rest of their lives. I'm not blaming the government for it happening but aren't children protected by the Constitution, or something? You weren't allowed freedom of religion, and you were physically and mentally tormented. I just don't get how that's even legal. Where are the Mandated Reporters and what is their level of responsibility for helping kids trapped in this BS? How is it different than being kidnapped?

I would agree with that although my group was definitely towards the more extreme end of the spectrum but not as extreme as ISIS and polygamy cults. It should rightfully be called a cult or else it feels invalidating. The level of trauma former members often experience is no joke.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 02 Jun 2023, 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That is certainly a fair point to make.  However, any one trait on that list that is a feature of a group should be a Big Red Flag that warns us to look for other traits displayed by that group, or to simply look elsewhere for friendship and social interaction.

It’s complicated.

They have been shelling out millions of dollars a year the past few years in lawsuits, but they still haven’t lost their tax exempt status. I think they could qualify as a hate group, but they aren’t. Often, their practices are abusive but not illegal.

I think that any religious group that practices and enforces systematic shunning of former members or supposed sinners should automatically be deemed a cult. That’s a big enough issue in its own right although groups that do this always engage in other problematic behaviors as well.

Also, it's one thing for a consenting adult to join one of these groups. It's another whole level of insanity when children are captive to it from the day they're born. Not only is it psychological terrorism, but TP reports that physical and sexual abuse are normalised. There's nowhere for these kids to turn for help especially if they're homeschooled, and no way they can escape.

Some traits seem to carry more weight when identifying a cult.  'Shunning' is one.  Gaslighting should be another.  So should Unquestionable (e.g., Absolute Authority).  These "Big Three" traits have kept me out of the JW&WS, the RCC, and a small number of criminal gangs.

^^ Physical abuse was absolutely the norm, and I hate to say this but I can fully understand why CSA was so often not reported, even by decent people.

I'm getting so agitated right now, it's not even funny. My heart is pounding, I'm breathing weird, and my arms are all jumpy. I'm having my own trauma trigger reaction just thinking about the captivity. I can't understand for the life of me why cops don't swarm these places when babies and children are involved. Regular inspections wouldn't even be good enough, as I'm sure you'd agree. Daycare centres need to be licensed and follow criminal law. Why not freaking families?

Definitely, I'd come closer to saying most major religions are essentially large cults, with one major caveat.





Agreed, but that's where things get messy (and here comes that caveat I mentioned); most major religions share several of those traits. One of the major factors in what makes a cult able to function as a cult is how devout the members are. Since devotion is the tool they use to manipulate, the less devout followers may not really amount to cultists, even if they identify with the group.

That's one of the main things that contributes to cults becoming less culty as they become mainstream and become recognized as religions. Christianity itself seems like the very definition of a cult during it's earliest days, but not too many people are giving away all of their possessions because Jesus said so anymore (for example). Meanwhile, lots of fringe offshoots of Christianity do have that level of influence over followers because they are that devoted.

I assume it has to do with the limits of how big a social group can be before having to rely on us vs. them, but even mainstream religions rely on that in places where they're the majority. I'd also anticipate that as a group grows it's more likely to gain critical thinkers on various points and that this breaks down ideological or theological cohesion over time.

Definitely. That's a major control tactic that should be a massive red flag.

It's like religion gets a free pass. There are various groups that are notorious for using rods on kids, and it's like no one cares because it's part of their religion. I think that all corporal punishment should be illegal because people can't be trusted not to cross a line, if such a line exists. I also think that getting a high school education or enrollment in some flexible equivalency program should be mandatory as well. Homeschooling should be illegal unless a parent has a college degree (not some fake degree from a "Bible college.")

Here, parents need to have a teaching degree to homeschool. The curriculum is controlled by provincial governments and kids still have to meet standard benchmarks. The idea of parents just keeping their babies home from the big, bad world is incomprehensible to me.

Also, what do you mean corporal punishment should be illegal? Isn't it? Here (here I go again, sorry lol), teachers got fined and disciplined for having children stand at the outdoor fence during recess, instead of playing. It was considered corporal punishment to have them stand up without a chair or the ability to move around.

That's often but not always the case. Some groups are so extreme they will eventually implode but will never normalize. JWs fall into this demographic, I believe.